5 ms·

> Today, we have all the tools we'll need, and indeed most of the tools we'll ever have, to build applications that are simultaneously cypherpunk and user-frien

> Today, we have all the tools we'll need, and indeed most of the tools we'll ever have, to build applications that are simultaneously cypherpunk and user-friendly. Really looking forward to the next couple years. Everyone has been writing this off as "no killer apps after 10 years" but there's a lot that's been happening to support adoption, from scaling to improved UX. In the next couple years those should percolate to production apps. The primary improvements have been rollups, blobs, account abstraction, and chain abstraction. An example of a new onboarding process being developed by coinbase can be seen here: https://twitter.com/WilsonCusack/status/1764355750149710190 https://twitter.com/WilsonCusack/status/1764355750149710190

jncfhnb 3y ago
Like what
- pa7x1 3y ago
  https://github.com/daimo-eth/daimo https://github.com/daimo-eth/daimo
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    So… a place to store your funds that is irretrievably lost if you lose your phone?
    - pa7x1 3y ago
      You can backup your account with passkeys.
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        Surely everyone will do that
  - fwip 3y ago
    The killer app of crypto is... a wallet app to put your crypto in. Okay.
    - erulabs 3y ago
      This is “decentralized Venmo”. Yes, the “killer app” of internet currency is going to be money transfers. That is not surprising, non-trivial, and quite valuable.
      - lottin 3y ago
        That's not a killer app. We already have money transfers.
        pa7x1 3y ago
        Providing global instant settlement for sub-cent fees? Doubt it.
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        Then you believe people will use this at a scale worthy of being called a killer app?
bigyikes 3y ago
What value proposition does crypto offer that existing solutions do not? The only reasonable answer crypto advocates can ever offer is “decentralization” and the lack of trust required. The problem is, most people are perfectly fine trusting their financial institutions. Another commenter was downvoted for saying “No one cares”, but a more precise way of putting this is “the average person doesn’t care about decentralization” and this is spot on. It’s cool tech, but it reminds me a bit of math research - towers of abstractions built over decades, with little effect on the real world. We can only hope that some benefits will be uncovered down the line. That’s what blockchain technology is: interesting research which will never be popular with or relevant to a lay person (outside of speculative bubbles)
- pa7x1 3y ago
  If you ascertain some value to the permissionless and self-custodial value of cash. And you see value in the internet's ability to connect the entire world. Then it follows immediately that you see value in cryptocurrency. Because you cannot use cash to transact globally, and you cannot use digital forms of central bank issued currency permissionlessly or have self-custody. Cryptocurrency gives you all those three properties. So you must give up something. HNers typically are willing to give up the permissionless and self-custody properties. After all, most of HN audience lives in developed democratic countries where personal freedoms are considered fundamental pillars and protected. But at a minimum you should consider that, not all the world lives under those circumstances. And that there are no guarantees that those circumstances will always be preserved in your cozy first world country. Certainly if you are willing to give them up so easily. Don't be so quick to assume it cannot happen where you live. One day they may go after some fringe truckers protesting in Canada. Another day they may go after some camgirls earning a living in ways that some executive board of a payment processor considers reprobable. Maybe one day they will tell you in what you can or cannot spend your money or where you can invest it and how much.
  - troupo 3y ago
    > If you ascertain some value to the permissionless and self-custodial value of cash. And you see value in the internet's ability to connect the entire world. Then it follows immediately that you see value in cryptocurrency. Those two separate sentences do not immediately team up to somehow lead to the third sentence. > After all, most of HN audience lives in developed democratic countries where personal freedoms are considered fundamental pillars and protected. As do most crypto proponents who imagine the world outside the "enlightened West" as barbaric lawless lands governed by roaming bands Mad Max-style. Even though than we can take a popular online service that people pay for and see in which countries it's available. For example, Spotify says it's available in 238 countries and territories: https://support.spotify.com/us/article/where-spotify-is-available/ https://support.spotify.com/us/article/where-spotify-is-avai.... It does not accept any form of crypto currency as payment. This means that people in these countries have enough financial institutions and methods, and enough security to be able to pay for an international music streaming service [1]. > Maybe one day they will tell you in what you can or cannot spend your money or where you can invest it and how much. Or some day the Mad Max-style roaming gang will break down your door and steal all your cash. Or break all your fingers until you give them access to all your wallets. [1] The number of ways people pay in various countries is staggering. See e.g. what Adyen (the payment integrator that companies like Spotify, Uber, eBay etc. use) has integrated with: https://docs.adyen.com/payment-methods/ https://docs.adyen.com/payment-methods/ and https://docs.adyen.com/unified-commerce/pay-by-link/supported-payment-methods/ https://docs.adyen.com/unified-commerce/pay-by-link/supporte... and https://docs.adyen.com/point-of-sale/what-we-support/payment-methods/ https://docs.adyen.com/point-of-sale/what-we-support/payment... The complete willful ignorance and obliviousness that the absolute various majority of crypto proponents exhibit is no less staggering.

jncfhnb 3y ago

Like what

pa7x1 3y ago
https://github.com/daimo-eth/daimo https://github.com/daimo-eth/daimo
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  So… a place to store your funds that is irretrievably lost if you lose your phone?
  - pa7x1 3y ago
    You can backup your account with passkeys.
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      Surely everyone will do that
- fwip 3y ago
  The killer app of crypto is... a wallet app to put your crypto in. Okay.
  - erulabs 3y ago
    This is “decentralized Venmo”. Yes, the “killer app” of internet currency is going to be money transfers. That is not surprising, non-trivial, and quite valuable.
    - lottin 3y ago
      That's not a killer app. We already have money transfers.
      - pa7x1 3y ago
        Providing global instant settlement for sub-cent fees? Doubt it.
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        Then you believe people will use this at a scale worthy of being called a killer app?

bigyikes 3y ago

What value proposition does crypto offer that existing solutions do not? The only reasonable answer crypto advocates can ever offer is “decentralization” and the lack of trust required. The problem is, most people are perfectly fine trusting their financial institutions. Another commenter was downvoted for saying “No one cares”, but a more precise way of putting this is “the average person doesn’t care about decentralization” and this is spot on. It’s cool tech, but it reminds me a bit of math research - towers of abstractions built over decades, with little effect on the real world. We can only hope that some benefits will be uncovered down the line. That’s what blockchain technology is: interesting research which will never be popular with or relevant to a lay person (outside of speculative bubbles)

pa7x1 3y ago
If you ascertain some value to the permissionless and self-custodial value of cash. And you see value in the internet's ability to connect the entire world. Then it follows immediately that you see value in cryptocurrency. Because you cannot use cash to transact globally, and you cannot use digital forms of central bank issued currency permissionlessly or have self-custody. Cryptocurrency gives you all those three properties. So you must give up something. HNers typically are willing to give up the permissionless and self-custody properties. After all, most of HN audience lives in developed democratic countries where personal freedoms are considered fundamental pillars and protected. But at a minimum you should consider that, not all the world lives under those circumstances. And that there are no guarantees that those circumstances will always be preserved in your cozy first world country. Certainly if you are willing to give them up so easily. Don't be so quick to assume it cannot happen where you live. One day they may go after some fringe truckers protesting in Canada. Another day they may go after some camgirls earning a living in ways that some executive board of a payment processor considers reprobable. Maybe one day they will tell you in what you can or cannot spend your money or where you can invest it and how much.
- troupo 3y ago
  > If you ascertain some value to the permissionless and self-custodial value of cash. And you see value in the internet's ability to connect the entire world. Then it follows immediately that you see value in cryptocurrency. Those two separate sentences do not immediately team up to somehow lead to the third sentence. > After all, most of HN audience lives in developed democratic countries where personal freedoms are considered fundamental pillars and protected. As do most crypto proponents who imagine the world outside the "enlightened West" as barbaric lawless lands governed by roaming bands Mad Max-style. Even though than we can take a popular online service that people pay for and see in which countries it's available. For example, Spotify says it's available in 238 countries and territories: https://support.spotify.com/us/article/where-spotify-is-available/ https://support.spotify.com/us/article/where-spotify-is-avai.... It does not accept any form of crypto currency as payment. This means that people in these countries have enough financial institutions and methods, and enough security to be able to pay for an international music streaming service [1]. > Maybe one day they will tell you in what you can or cannot spend your money or where you can invest it and how much. Or some day the Mad Max-style roaming gang will break down your door and steal all your cash. Or break all your fingers until you give them access to all your wallets. [1] The number of ways people pay in various countries is staggering. See e.g. what Adyen (the payment integrator that companies like Spotify, Uber, eBay etc. use) has integrated with: https://docs.adyen.com/payment-methods/ https://docs.adyen.com/payment-methods/ and https://docs.adyen.com/unified-commerce/pay-by-link/supported-payment-methods/ https://docs.adyen.com/unified-commerce/pay-by-link/supporte... and https://docs.adyen.com/point-of-sale/what-we-support/payment-methods/ https://docs.adyen.com/point-of-sale/what-we-support/payment... The complete willful ignorance and obliviousness that the absolute various majority of crypto proponents exhibit is no less staggering.