5 ms·

FTX was one of the biggest frauds in history.. and you're showing us averages. Madoff received a 150 year sentence, and that was with leniency for pleading guil

FTX was one of the biggest frauds in history.. and you're showing us averages. Madoff received a 150 year sentence, and that was with leniency for pleading guilty.

j0hnyl 3y ago
Propotional to the size of Madoff's ponzi, SBFs sentence is heavy.
- tptacek 3y ago
  Both Madoff and SBF redlined the 2B1.1 "monetary amount of fraud" criteria, so the comparison is moot.
  - Breza 3y ago
    Yeah, I think the guidelines are correct to think about all staggeringly large amounts of money in the same way. If you steal $600 million, you probably would have stolen $10 billion if you could.
- e40 3y ago
  Again, Madoff plead guilty. Has SBF shown any (real) remorse or taken responsibility?
  - Breza 3y ago
    Nope. And the sentencing includes several instances of SBF lying to the court. Judges don't like being lied to.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
dml2135 3y ago
I don't think there's any way to reasonable describe a life sentence as lenient, unless one was facing the death penalty.
- datavirtue 3y ago
  It's pretty lenient in Canada. Child rapist murderers can apply for day parole in ten years (where yes, they let them scuttle off into society unattended) and permeant parole in 25 years. Families are continually retraumatized every few years in that system by having to beg parole boards to not let out the freak that stalked, kidnapped, raped, killed and dismembered their daughter or mother. They never get to move on.
  - Repulsion9513 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - mortify 3y ago
      It wasn't about being paroled but the disparity in leniency.
      - Repulsion9513 3y ago
        Uhh, read it again, definitely was.
    - karaokeyoga 3y ago
      Again?
amanj41 3y ago
Wasn't Madoff's plan the whole time to pocket investor money for himself, whereas Sam's was to arrogantly (and illegally) gamble it with the thought being he could return the principal from Alameda back to FTX in future? Genuine question, I'm not super informed on these.
- xotesos 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - alex_lav 3y ago
    You can't believe how people can think intent matters?
    - Repulsion9513 3y ago
      There's no difference in intent described there. Sam's plan was to pocket investor money for himself (and maybe return some of it, eventually, if his gamble paid off) I'm pretty sure Madoff returned some money before being found out, too.
- nickff 3y ago
  From what I’ve read, it’s not exactly clear that Madoff had a plan, it seems more like he lied to a few people about being able to make them a lot of money, and that snowballed into him taking a lot of “investments” that he didn’t know what to do with. From what I’ve seen about SBF, it does seem like he has a very high risk tolerance, was betting big to win big, and thinking the reward was worth the risk.
  - tim333 3y ago
    Funnily enough if SBF hadn't been found out the investments probably would have recovered enough to cover the deposits and he'd still be a hero.
    - 3y ago

FTX was one of the biggest frauds in history.. and you're showing us averages. Madoff received a 150 year sentence, and that was with leniency for pleading guilty.

j0hnyl 3y ago

Propotional to the size of Madoff's ponzi, SBFs sentence is heavy.

tptacek 3y ago
Both Madoff and SBF redlined the 2B1.1 "monetary amount of fraud" criteria, so the comparison is moot.
- Breza 3y ago
  Yeah, I think the guidelines are correct to think about all staggeringly large amounts of money in the same way. If you steal $600 million, you probably would have stolen $10 billion if you could.
e40 3y ago
Again, Madoff plead guilty. Has SBF shown any (real) remorse or taken responsibility?
- Breza 3y ago
  Nope. And the sentencing includes several instances of SBF lying to the court. Judges don't like being lied to.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

dml2135 3y ago

I don't think there's any way to reasonable describe a life sentence as lenient, unless one was facing the death penalty.

datavirtue 3y ago
It's pretty lenient in Canada. Child rapist murderers can apply for day parole in ten years (where yes, they let them scuttle off into society unattended) and permeant parole in 25 years. Families are continually retraumatized every few years in that system by having to beg parole boards to not let out the freak that stalked, kidnapped, raped, killed and dismembered their daughter or mother. They never get to move on.
- Repulsion9513 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - mortify 3y ago
    It wasn't about being paroled but the disparity in leniency.
    - Repulsion9513 3y ago
      Uhh, read it again, definitely was.
  - karaokeyoga 3y ago
    Again?

amanj41 3y ago

Wasn't Madoff's plan the whole time to pocket investor money for himself, whereas Sam's was to arrogantly (and illegally) gamble it with the thought being he could return the principal from Alameda back to FTX in future? Genuine question, I'm not super informed on these.

xotesos 3y ago
[flagged]
- alex_lav 3y ago
  You can't believe how people can think intent matters?
  - Repulsion9513 3y ago
    There's no difference in intent described there. Sam's plan was to pocket investor money for himself (and maybe return some of it, eventually, if his gamble paid off) I'm pretty sure Madoff returned some money before being found out, too.
nickff 3y ago
From what I’ve read, it’s not exactly clear that Madoff had a plan, it seems more like he lied to a few people about being able to make them a lot of money, and that snowballed into him taking a lot of “investments” that he didn’t know what to do with. From what I’ve seen about SBF, it does seem like he has a very high risk tolerance, was betting big to win big, and thinking the reward was worth the risk.
- tim333 3y ago
  Funnily enough if SBF hadn't been found out the investments probably would have recovered enough to cover the deposits and he'd still be a hero.
  - 3y ago