4 ms·

Is there a legit way to use these without a Ham license? I sometimes ski in areas with bad cell service and it would be neat to have an alternative. I've seen p

Is there a legit way to use these without a Ham license? I sometimes ski in areas with bad cell service and it would be neat to have an alternative. I've seen portable CB radios but they're on the pricier side

trelane 3y ago
You can always listen. It's transmitting that requires a license. Possibly also the modding as well.
- trelane 3y ago
  It's probably pretty easy for anyone here to get Technician, and probably General. I'd expect a large number could get Extra, and probably in one sitting. So you're right, you could use ham radio, but it does require a license, but it's probably not hard to get. Also, if you've an emergency, technically whatever you need to do to get help is fine. But it had better be a life and death emergency. Especially if you end up taking over the radio to a government agency, e.g. FAA or DoD.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    > It's probably pretty easy for anyone here to get Technician, and probably General. Yep. If you're reading this, you probably have the technical background to pass the Technician exam pretty easily. A big chunk of the exam is stuff you learned in the physics class you probably had to take along the way. The rest is largely about specific regulations, like the power limit at this frequency is X, and don't build a tower more than Y tall within Z of airport. If you can remember "frequency * wavelength = speed of light" and "watts = volts * amps", you could probably get a passing score on the technical part of it without studying in advance.
    - MandieD 3y ago
      Most of the rest of the Technician exam is what is the absolute minimum you need to know about Part 97 to avoid disrupting your neighbors' radio reception and/or keep the FCC from knocking on your door.
      - kstrauser 3y ago
        Exactly. They're the training wheels: if you never do these things, you'll be fine. (And if you do the right things and your neighbor still gets annoyed, we won't get mad at you.) General and Extra are more like "OK, here's how you can get as close as possible to those things we told you not do to without getting in trouble."
2four2 3y ago
Short answer: no Nuanced short answer: operate on frs channels or buy a gmrs license and operate on those bands. This is still illegal because your equipment isn't allowed to operate on these bands but not heavily enforced. Use at your own risk.
- neilv 3y ago
  IIRC, the transmit power of all versions of the UV-5R are too high for FRS. Besides being noncompliant in ways that people are more likely to consider harmless technicalities, such as the antenna being removable.
  - avidiax 3y ago
    There are 5W and even 50W GMRS bands. You would need a license in that case, but it's not expensive. The handheld would be non-compliant, but that wouldn't be detectable on-air unless the deviation or power is outside spec for that frequency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service#Frequency_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service#F...
ElevenLathe 3y ago
I wonder if this could be programmed to operate on CB bands only? If it could, would that be legal to use on the air?
- cbfrench 3y ago
  I don’t think it would. IIRC, CB radios are type-certified, which means that the transmitter itself is licensed, rather than the operator (similar to FRS). That said, these days the FCC gives absolutely zero shits about what happens on 11m, so I wouldn’t expect any knocks at the door if you modify a non-CB radio for use on CB channels.
- avidiax 3y ago
  In addition to it being technically illegal, you probably can't transmit well on CB without an external antenna and amplifier.
- MandieD 3y ago
  Wrong frequency range - these handhelds are designed for 2m and 70cm, and CB is 11m. You'd have to do a lot of tricky hardware modification first, and then hook it up to a rather large antenna for a handheld.
- lormayna 3y ago
  You can, but the problem is that the radio chip is not designed for the 27Mhz, then you will generate an huge amount of spurious that will pollute other bands and wasting lot of power. I advise don't do that, just to avoid to interfere with some critical services.
cbfrench 3y ago
The better question might be: What is your imagined use case for this radio? A VHF/UHF handheld is more or less limited to LOS transmission, so you would either need to be within reliable range of a repeater or another person with an HT tuned to that frequency. If you’re looking for something you can use in a backcountry emergency, you’d frankly be better off just plunking down the money for a satphone, which is going to be much more reliable. An HT radio is unlikely to be of much use in that scenario, unless you know there’s a repeater nearby that is regularly used and that you can hit from your location. OTOH, if you’re looking for a new hobby and a gadget to play around with, get a license, pick up an UV-K5, and have fun! If you want to get a license just to play on the radio, it is super easy. A Technician license will allow you legally to use any VHF/UHF radio with full access to those bands (plus all of 6m and some access to other HF bands). It’s extremely simple to get licensed. Put the HamStudy app on your phone, run through the question pool/practice exams until the info is in your memory, and then sign up for a remote exam on HamStudy.org. I studied for my Technician license for like a day and a half and aced the Tech exam. I aced my General and Extra exams within a week using the same method. I have no background in tech or EE. So, yeah, it’s easy.
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  I agree in general, that if someone has a short amount of time, a small amount of money, and any kind of ability to memorize some rules, then getting a Tech license is a breeze! And if you're actually enjoying it, getting a General is not difficult, either. In my humble opinion, the rules on antenna and transmit power for FRS are annoying - garbage range and prone to interference. I wouldn't want to risk pissing off the FCC or a ham with too much time on their hands by running hot on FRS constantly... But for occasional backwoods travel with friends or to use in an emergency without clogging up ham frequencies, it's totally possible to reprogram certain Baofengs and these radios to transmit on FRS frequencies with low wattage. In fact, I think FRS was modified to allow higher power now, so the low-end of these radios fits. It's just the antenna reg that they break now.
  - cbfrench 3y ago
    Yeah, definitely agree 100%. It’s not a popular ham opinion, but the general follow-up to “Is this illegal?” should be “Will anyone care?” Lots of practices in the radio world are, strictly speaking, illegal, but no one cares. See all the guys running multiple kW amps on CB, which is limited (laughably) to 4W AM and 12W PEP on SSB. If you modify a bunch of Fengs to run on FRS/GMRS freqs to talk up and down the mountain out in the middle of nowhere, sure, it’s illegal, but if no one hears your transmissions other that the people on the mountain, it’s not an issue unless you take the FCC regs as moral edicts. But if you’re looking for a way to get a signal out in an emergency, a satphone is still going to be your best bet.
ganzuul 3y ago
> legit If you have an emergency you can initiate emergency traffic. Bought an UV-R5 years ago during a short prepping spree as backup if the mobile net is compromised. Took off the antenna and transmitted less than a second to see if an RTL-SDR would pick up the carrier wave. Then it went into storage and I top up the battery once per year.
- Avamander 3y ago
  Running a transmitter without an antenna is a great way to ruin it.
  - ganzuul 3y ago
    I thought of that but if it can’t handle that for a second then I can’t rely on it for prepping purposes.
- teraflop 3y ago
  But to clarify, for the purposes of amateur radio, "emergency traffic" is defined as: > essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available (47 CFR § 97.403) That is, just because your communications are related to an ongoing emergency doesn't automatically give you the right to transmit without a license.
- threemux 3y ago
  You can use any means necessary if life or property are in imminent danger and only if you're already licensed. The section of Part 97 everyone quotes applies to amateur stations only (like the rest of Part 97). So unless there's another part of the FCC rules that allows this I'm unaware of, even emergency communications made by unlicensed users are illegal.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y ago
    If life is on the line, worrying about the FCC is pretty low on the priority list.
myself248 3y ago
What's the reasoning for not getting the license? It's super straightforward, the test questions are about some RF basics and the regulations you'd have to comply with anyway, and it's super cheap and lasts a lifetime. IOW, I think you're solving the wrong problem.
- colelyman 3y ago
  > lasts a lifetime You need to renew the license every 10 years, but as long as you renew you don't need to take a test (which is maybe what you mean by "lasts a lifetime").
  - amatecha 3y ago
    Yeah depends on the country/jurisdiction - in Canada, an amateur radio certification is valid for life, and doesn't require any sort of re-testing or paid renewal or anything. Pretty nice. One of the few times the government has really done something right, IMO :)
    - myself248 3y ago
      In the US, it lasts a lifetime but you have to tell them you're still alive every ten years. This is free, but if you don't file the form, your license is no longer valid.
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago
  In a lot of places your name/address is publicly linked to your callsign when you have a HAM licence, in databases anyone can search. Which is absolute shit.
  - lhamil64 3y ago
    If you're in the US, you can use any address you can receive mail at (work, a PO box, mail forwarding service, etc). I used a cheap mail forwarding service (it actually doesn't charge a monthly fee, just shipping and I never get mail there anyway). The important thing is to get this setup before you even get your FRN because the change history of your license is also public, so once your address is there, it's viewable forever.
amatecha 3y ago
You can snag one and listen, just can't transmit. Otherwise, no, no way to legally use it without obtaining an amateur radio certification/license.
yellow_postit 3y ago
Getting radios for skiing as a family and group has been a game changer. Rocky Talkies are very accessible.
- mceachen 3y ago
  You got your kids to pass a ham license test? Kudos.
  - _whiteCaps_ 3y ago
    Rocky Talkies are FRS.
    - RenThraysk 3y ago
      They have a GMRS version now too.
lxgr 3y ago
For that, I'd just get FRS (US) or PMR446 (EU) radios (or your local equivalent). No license needed and very cheaply available but still interoperable across manufacturers.
webnrrd2k 3y ago
I could be wrong, but I believe that anyone, even without a license, can use them to listen to ham bands at anytime. You can not use them to transmit, unless there is some sort of emergency.
transcriptase 3y ago
I believe both the FCC and ISED have exceptions for unlicensed individuals to use any amateur frequency in the event of a genuine emergency. For the price it could be worthwhile to program one of these with local comms frequencies. As long as you don't transmit outside of an emergency it's perfectly legal to both have and listen with. Plus it has a flashlight!

trelane 3y ago

You can always listen. It's transmitting that requires a license. Possibly also the modding as well.

trelane 3y ago
It's probably pretty easy for anyone here to get Technician, and probably General. I'd expect a large number could get Extra, and probably in one sitting. So you're right, you could use ham radio, but it does require a license, but it's probably not hard to get. Also, if you've an emergency, technically whatever you need to do to get help is fine. But it had better be a life and death emergency. Especially if you end up taking over the radio to a government agency, e.g. FAA or DoD.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  > It's probably pretty easy for anyone here to get Technician, and probably General. Yep. If you're reading this, you probably have the technical background to pass the Technician exam pretty easily. A big chunk of the exam is stuff you learned in the physics class you probably had to take along the way. The rest is largely about specific regulations, like the power limit at this frequency is X, and don't build a tower more than Y tall within Z of airport. If you can remember "frequency * wavelength = speed of light" and "watts = volts * amps", you could probably get a passing score on the technical part of it without studying in advance.
  - MandieD 3y ago
    Most of the rest of the Technician exam is what is the absolute minimum you need to know about Part 97 to avoid disrupting your neighbors' radio reception and/or keep the FCC from knocking on your door.
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      Exactly. They're the training wheels: if you never do these things, you'll be fine. (And if you do the right things and your neighbor still gets annoyed, we won't get mad at you.) General and Extra are more like "OK, here's how you can get as close as possible to those things we told you not do to without getting in trouble."

2four2 3y ago

Short answer: no Nuanced short answer: operate on frs channels or buy a gmrs license and operate on those bands. This is still illegal because your equipment isn't allowed to operate on these bands but not heavily enforced. Use at your own risk.

neilv 3y ago
IIRC, the transmit power of all versions of the UV-5R are too high for FRS. Besides being noncompliant in ways that people are more likely to consider harmless technicalities, such as the antenna being removable.
- avidiax 3y ago
  There are 5W and even 50W GMRS bands. You would need a license in that case, but it's not expensive. The handheld would be non-compliant, but that wouldn't be detectable on-air unless the deviation or power is outside spec for that frequency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service#Frequency_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service#F...

ElevenLathe 3y ago

I wonder if this could be programmed to operate on CB bands only? If it could, would that be legal to use on the air?

cbfrench 3y ago
I don’t think it would. IIRC, CB radios are type-certified, which means that the transmitter itself is licensed, rather than the operator (similar to FRS). That said, these days the FCC gives absolutely zero shits about what happens on 11m, so I wouldn’t expect any knocks at the door if you modify a non-CB radio for use on CB channels.
avidiax 3y ago
In addition to it being technically illegal, you probably can't transmit well on CB without an external antenna and amplifier.
MandieD 3y ago
Wrong frequency range - these handhelds are designed for 2m and 70cm, and CB is 11m. You'd have to do a lot of tricky hardware modification first, and then hook it up to a rather large antenna for a handheld.
lormayna 3y ago
You can, but the problem is that the radio chip is not designed for the 27Mhz, then you will generate an huge amount of spurious that will pollute other bands and wasting lot of power. I advise don't do that, just to avoid to interfere with some critical services.

cbfrench 3y ago

The better question might be: What is your imagined use case for this radio? A VHF/UHF handheld is more or less limited to LOS transmission, so you would either need to be within reliable range of a repeater or another person with an HT tuned to that frequency. If you’re looking for something you can use in a backcountry emergency, you’d frankly be better off just plunking down the money for a satphone, which is going to be much more reliable. An HT radio is unlikely to be of much use in that scenario, unless you know there’s a repeater nearby that is regularly used and that you can hit from your location. OTOH, if you’re looking for a new hobby and a gadget to play around with, get a license, pick up an UV-K5, and have fun! If you want to get a license just to play on the radio, it is super easy. A Technician license will allow you legally to use any VHF/UHF radio with full access to those bands (plus all of 6m and some access to other HF bands). It’s extremely simple to get licensed. Put the HamStudy app on your phone, run through the question pool/practice exams until the info is in your memory, and then sign up for a remote exam on HamStudy.org. I studied for my Technician license for like a day and a half and aced the Tech exam. I aced my General and Extra exams within a week using the same method. I have no background in tech or EE. So, yeah, it’s easy.

unethical_ban 3y ago
I agree in general, that if someone has a short amount of time, a small amount of money, and any kind of ability to memorize some rules, then getting a Tech license is a breeze! And if you're actually enjoying it, getting a General is not difficult, either. In my humble opinion, the rules on antenna and transmit power for FRS are annoying - garbage range and prone to interference. I wouldn't want to risk pissing off the FCC or a ham with too much time on their hands by running hot on FRS constantly... But for occasional backwoods travel with friends or to use in an emergency without clogging up ham frequencies, it's totally possible to reprogram certain Baofengs and these radios to transmit on FRS frequencies with low wattage. In fact, I think FRS was modified to allow higher power now, so the low-end of these radios fits. It's just the antenna reg that they break now.
- cbfrench 3y ago
  Yeah, definitely agree 100%. It’s not a popular ham opinion, but the general follow-up to “Is this illegal?” should be “Will anyone care?” Lots of practices in the radio world are, strictly speaking, illegal, but no one cares. See all the guys running multiple kW amps on CB, which is limited (laughably) to 4W AM and 12W PEP on SSB. If you modify a bunch of Fengs to run on FRS/GMRS freqs to talk up and down the mountain out in the middle of nowhere, sure, it’s illegal, but if no one hears your transmissions other that the people on the mountain, it’s not an issue unless you take the FCC regs as moral edicts. But if you’re looking for a way to get a signal out in an emergency, a satphone is still going to be your best bet.

ganzuul 3y ago

> legit If you have an emergency you can initiate emergency traffic. Bought an UV-R5 years ago during a short prepping spree as backup if the mobile net is compromised. Took off the antenna and transmitted less than a second to see if an RTL-SDR would pick up the carrier wave. Then it went into storage and I top up the battery once per year.

Avamander 3y ago
Running a transmitter without an antenna is a great way to ruin it.
- ganzuul 3y ago
  I thought of that but if it can’t handle that for a second then I can’t rely on it for prepping purposes.
teraflop 3y ago
But to clarify, for the purposes of amateur radio, "emergency traffic" is defined as: > essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available (47 CFR § 97.403) That is, just because your communications are related to an ongoing emergency doesn't automatically give you the right to transmit without a license.
threemux 3y ago
You can use any means necessary if life or property are in imminent danger and only if you're already licensed. The section of Part 97 everyone quotes applies to amateur stations only (like the rest of Part 97). So unless there's another part of the FCC rules that allows this I'm unaware of, even emergency communications made by unlicensed users are illegal.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y ago
  If life is on the line, worrying about the FCC is pretty low on the priority list.

myself248 3y ago

What's the reasoning for not getting the license? It's super straightforward, the test questions are about some RF basics and the regulations you'd have to comply with anyway, and it's super cheap and lasts a lifetime. IOW, I think you're solving the wrong problem.

colelyman 3y ago
> lasts a lifetime You need to renew the license every 10 years, but as long as you renew you don't need to take a test (which is maybe what you mean by "lasts a lifetime").
- amatecha 3y ago
  Yeah depends on the country/jurisdiction - in Canada, an amateur radio certification is valid for life, and doesn't require any sort of re-testing or paid renewal or anything. Pretty nice. One of the few times the government has really done something right, IMO :)
  - myself248 3y ago
    In the US, it lasts a lifetime but you have to tell them you're still alive every ten years. This is free, but if you don't file the form, your license is no longer valid.
fullspectrumdev 3y ago
In a lot of places your name/address is publicly linked to your callsign when you have a HAM licence, in databases anyone can search. Which is absolute shit.
- lhamil64 3y ago
  If you're in the US, you can use any address you can receive mail at (work, a PO box, mail forwarding service, etc). I used a cheap mail forwarding service (it actually doesn't charge a monthly fee, just shipping and I never get mail there anyway). The important thing is to get this setup before you even get your FRN because the change history of your license is also public, so once your address is there, it's viewable forever.

amatecha 3y ago

You can snag one and listen, just can't transmit. Otherwise, no, no way to legally use it without obtaining an amateur radio certification/license.

yellow_postit 3y ago

Getting radios for skiing as a family and group has been a game changer. Rocky Talkies are very accessible.

mceachen 3y ago
You got your kids to pass a ham license test? Kudos.
- _whiteCaps_ 3y ago
  Rocky Talkies are FRS.
  - RenThraysk 3y ago
    They have a GMRS version now too.

lxgr 3y ago

For that, I'd just get FRS (US) or PMR446 (EU) radios (or your local equivalent). No license needed and very cheaply available but still interoperable across manufacturers.

webnrrd2k 3y ago

I could be wrong, but I believe that anyone, even without a license, can use them to listen to ham bands at anytime. You can not use them to transmit, unless there is some sort of emergency.

transcriptase 3y ago

I believe both the FCC and ISED have exceptions for unlicensed individuals to use any amateur frequency in the event of a genuine emergency. For the price it could be worthwhile to program one of these with local comms frequencies. As long as you don't transmit outside of an emergency it's perfectly legal to both have and listen with. Plus it has a flashlight!