4 ms·

Bernie Madoff got 150 years and I believe most (a lot of?) people got their money back. If being rich and powerful buys you "justice", where did Bernie fail?

throwaway5959 3y ago
He made rich people lose money.
jptv 3y ago
Madoff destroyed families, and folks lifetime savings
dixie_land 3y ago
He scammed too many other rich and powerful people I think. Just stick with scamming the commoners and you'll be fine :)
ajb 3y ago
Many of his victims were rich and powerful - it was an affinity fraud.
wmf 3y ago
Madoff's investors lost massively compared to investing in index funds.
danpalmer 3y ago
> most (a lot of?) people got their money back On average people got 70% of their money back I believe. However the story is way more complicated than that. Most Madoff investors put their money in decades before, saw 20+ years of growth, and took out dividends over those years. Most investors were pensioners living off their dividends. When the team came in to clear up the mess at the end, they redistributed the money according to pay-ins and pay-outs. So, imagine you put $1m into the fund in 1985, took $100k out per year, and in 2005, 20 years later, still had >$1m in the fund. In ~2010, the restructuring team would sue you for $1m because you had taken out $2m after putting in only $1m. But you don't have that money, all you've got is a house and a reasonable yearly salary. Unfortunately many people lost their houses and other assets because they had taken out more than their original contribution over the >20 year period. Even if you didn't take anything out, people bet the rest of their financial lives on the fact that their initial contribution had gone up. Only counting for inflation, getting back their initial investment would be a terrible financial outcome, but accounting for what they reasonably thought they had, this would still be ruinous. This is all why FTX saying people might get back their money is a terribly misleading statement.
ses1984 3y ago
He ripped off the rich and powerful.
arrowsmith 3y ago
Why should it make a difference to your sentence whether or not your victims get their money back?

throwaway5959 3y ago

He made rich people lose money.

jptv 3y ago

Madoff destroyed families, and folks lifetime savings

dixie_land 3y ago

He scammed too many other rich and powerful people I think. Just stick with scamming the commoners and you'll be fine :)

ajb 3y ago

Many of his victims were rich and powerful - it was an affinity fraud.

wmf 3y ago

Madoff's investors lost massively compared to investing in index funds.

danpalmer 3y ago

> most (a lot of?) people got their money back On average people got 70% of their money back I believe. However the story is way more complicated than that. Most Madoff investors put their money in decades before, saw 20+ years of growth, and took out dividends over those years. Most investors were pensioners living off their dividends. When the team came in to clear up the mess at the end, they redistributed the money according to pay-ins and pay-outs. So, imagine you put $1m into the fund in 1985, took $100k out per year, and in 2005, 20 years later, still had >$1m in the fund. In ~2010, the restructuring team would sue you for $1m because you had taken out $2m after putting in only $1m. But you don't have that money, all you've got is a house and a reasonable yearly salary. Unfortunately many people lost their houses and other assets because they had taken out more than their original contribution over the >20 year period. Even if you didn't take anything out, people bet the rest of their financial lives on the fact that their initial contribution had gone up. Only counting for inflation, getting back their initial investment would be a terrible financial outcome, but accounting for what they reasonably thought they had, this would still be ruinous. This is all why FTX saying people might get back their money is a terribly misleading statement.

ses1984 3y ago

He ripped off the rich and powerful.

arrowsmith 3y ago

Why should it make a difference to your sentence whether or not your victims get their money back?