4 ms·

Low? That's high! He didn't kill anyone. A sentence of 25 years completely destroys his life. He's been made an example of.

malermeister 3y ago
He's completely destroyed thousands of lives through his actions.
- esotericimpl 3y ago
  [dead]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
n2d4 3y ago
Maybe he didn't kill anyone directly, but I can assure you that plenty of people committed suicide solely as a consequence of his actions
- kosievdmerwe 3y ago
  One of the victims at the sentencing mentioned that there were at least 3 suicides.
- floor2 3y ago
  Maybe don't send your money to an unregulated startup in the Bahamas to gamble on cryptocurrencies if losing that money is going to cause you to commit suicide? The "victims" knew they were intentionally avoiding government oversight of securities law, banking regulators, etc. When they lost money we should have collectively shrugged our shoulders and said that's the risk they chose to take.
  - infamouscow 3y ago
    Is there any limiting principle to your remarkably stupid* rationale where everyone assumes all risk of their decisions implicitly and explicitly? *: yes stupid, not an ad hominem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc
  - baggy_trough 3y ago
    Also, don't run such a startup if you want to avoid 25 years in prison.
  - Larrikin 3y ago
    Maybe that girl shouldn't have worn that skirt, maybe that black guy shouldn't have been in that town after sunset, maybe that guy shouldn't have had a boyfriend. There was a trial and now a sentencing, your argument according to law is wrong.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    It sounds callous, but if accept the suggestion that he's responsible for their deaths, how can we then excuse people working in the casinos or other gambling ventures that surely lead to the deaths of many. Or would folks here suggest the numerous HN contributors who have worked in gambling tech are deserving of life in prison as well?
    - Kwpolska 3y ago
      Prosecuting individual contributors to gambling is too far, but prosecuting C-level execs of gambling companies is correct to me.
    - n2d4 3y ago
      Gambling, like finance, has rules. If I start a casino, and tell everyone that the roulette is fair, and then go ahead and rig it so no one ever wins, then yea, I should be sent straight to prison. If SBF told everyone loud and clear "hey guys you can give me money and I will use it to gamble on my favorite crypto tokens and play board games with Caroline" then I don't think he would deserve a prison sentence (but he also wouldn't get any customers). It's the deception that makes it a crime.
  - Arthur_ODC 3y ago
    This is the most reasonable take I've seen about this.
    - infamouscow 3y ago
      Blaming the victim is a reasonable take? That's genuinely insane. I would enumerate a number of immediate logical consequences of this idiocy, but that would be illegal (a shame, really).
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- thefaux 3y ago
  For me, SBF's fraud is a comorbidity but not likely the underlying cause of the suicides. By similar logic, should we imprison all tobacco executives? Personally, I'm glad SBF is being held accountable but this sentence seems very harsh, especially given that I expect all of his coconspirators will mostly be let off the hook.
  - q3k 3y ago
    > By similar logic, should we imprison all tobacco executives? If it was for me to decide - yes, absolutely.
  - n2d4 3y ago
    > By similar logic, should we imprison all tobacco executives? If they committed crimes to sell tobacco (which, to my knowledge, is true for at least some of them), absolutely, yes.
helf 3y ago
[dead]
davidwritesbugs 3y ago
Yes. He's been made an example of. That's kind of the point: "Tempted to commit fraud on a huge scale and wreck thousands of lives? Consider what we did to this guy."
- antonchekhov 3y ago
  On a much more severe scale, this is clearly the message that the Kremlin lavishly displayed of the initial treatment of the suspects involved in the Moscow Crocus Hall shootings/bombing - the results of severe torture send an unmistakable message of "Do not be tempted to try this (terrorism/attempted revolution" to the citizenry, with the implicit message that their very-short remaining lifespan will be very painful.
  - chongli 3y ago
    "Do not be tempted to try this (terrorism/attempted revolution" to the citizenry And the citizenry are the only ones left who can be deterred by this message. Islamic State will switch to using suicide bombers who have no fear of torture. My personal theory is that Prigozhin's aborted mutiny last year and Ukraine's sustained drone campaign against Russian oil infrastructure paved the way to the Crocus Hall attack. Now the doors have been opened and Russia's internal security has been revealed for the paper tiger that it is. Every single paramilitary group with a bone to pick with Russia has now been forcefully made aware of Putin's weakness and now they'll be lining up to copy these attacks. All the while, he continues to try to blame Ukraine for this despite all evidence to the contrary. Scary times to be living in Russia right now!
crispyambulance 3y ago
> A sentence of 25 years completely destroys his life. No, it does not "destroy his life". He will be in his early/mid-50's when gets out. Someone with his privilege, education and resources should have known better. It's hard to feel sympathy. I expect that sufficient punishment in cases like this will serve as a deterrent for others like SBF who would do the same. Hopefully he is ALSO restricted, for life, from ever working in finance again.
- tyingq 3y ago
  >Hopefully he is ALSO restricted, for life, from ever working in finance again. A felony conviction is pretty effective for heavily restricting any type of employment. The universal and cheap access to background checks means work is either places that deliberately have "hire a felon" programs or some type of self-employment, or connections with people very high up in a company. Though all those angles are also complicated if any sort of state licensing is involved.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    That doesn't actually seem to be the case for white collar criminals though. That guy from Wolf of Wall street is conning people to this very day, including being a hype guy for crypto scams!
    - tyingq 3y ago
      I don't know for sure, but "hype guy" probably means self-employed and companies pay his company for that sort of thing. That is available for blue-collar felons also.
  - gorbachev 3y ago
    Is it everywhere though? He's already proven he's perfectly fine running his empires from countries with a more relaxed attitude to financial regulations.
- hereonout2 3y ago
  I didn't read any sympathy in that comment, they just seem to be pointing out that 25 years is not a "low" sentence. I would also agree that spending a 3rd of your life in prison is in effect destroying it.
fckgw 3y ago
Go read the victim impact statements sometime. He destroyed lots of people's lives.
mnau 3y ago
As far as I am concerned, when you steal from me, you robbed me of piece of my life. The time I spend earning that money, instead of being with friends or just pursuing a hobby or just wasting it on HN. How many lifetimes worth of time were destroyed by his fraud. It's definitely not high punishment.
- anon291 3y ago
  I mean... At the end of the day everyone 'invested' their money here. The risks of high interest Bitcoin accounts were well known and elucidated by all reputable sources. If you lost money in this, I'm truly sorry, but realistically what did you expect. It wasn't even a bank (and remember if your bank loses money, no one's going to jail as long as they followed regulations).
  - mnau 3y ago
    I haven't lost any money, I avoid crypto. The difference is consent and malicious behavior. When I invest into stock market, it can always go down. When you move your customers money to save your other failing company, it's fraud. There is no consent and there is malicious behavior. Crypto repeats all failings of old-fashioned banking system we have learned over 2 centuries, except it's "with blockchain" now.
selfmodruntime 3y ago
Retribution is a part of the justice system

malermeister 3y ago

He's completely destroyed thousands of lives through his actions.

esotericimpl 3y ago
[dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

n2d4 3y ago

Maybe he didn't kill anyone directly, but I can assure you that plenty of people committed suicide solely as a consequence of his actions

kosievdmerwe 3y ago
One of the victims at the sentencing mentioned that there were at least 3 suicides.
floor2 3y ago
Maybe don't send your money to an unregulated startup in the Bahamas to gamble on cryptocurrencies if losing that money is going to cause you to commit suicide? The "victims" knew they were intentionally avoiding government oversight of securities law, banking regulators, etc. When they lost money we should have collectively shrugged our shoulders and said that's the risk they chose to take.
- infamouscow 3y ago
  Is there any limiting principle to your remarkably stupid* rationale where everyone assumes all risk of their decisions implicitly and explicitly? *: yes stupid, not an ad hominem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc
- baggy_trough 3y ago
  Also, don't run such a startup if you want to avoid 25 years in prison.
- Larrikin 3y ago
  Maybe that girl shouldn't have worn that skirt, maybe that black guy shouldn't have been in that town after sunset, maybe that guy shouldn't have had a boyfriend. There was a trial and now a sentencing, your argument according to law is wrong.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  It sounds callous, but if accept the suggestion that he's responsible for their deaths, how can we then excuse people working in the casinos or other gambling ventures that surely lead to the deaths of many. Or would folks here suggest the numerous HN contributors who have worked in gambling tech are deserving of life in prison as well?
  - Kwpolska 3y ago
    Prosecuting individual contributors to gambling is too far, but prosecuting C-level execs of gambling companies is correct to me.
  - n2d4 3y ago
    Gambling, like finance, has rules. If I start a casino, and tell everyone that the roulette is fair, and then go ahead and rig it so no one ever wins, then yea, I should be sent straight to prison. If SBF told everyone loud and clear "hey guys you can give me money and I will use it to gamble on my favorite crypto tokens and play board games with Caroline" then I don't think he would deserve a prison sentence (but he also wouldn't get any customers). It's the deception that makes it a crime.
- Arthur_ODC 3y ago
  This is the most reasonable take I've seen about this.
  - infamouscow 3y ago
    Blaming the victim is a reasonable take? That's genuinely insane. I would enumerate a number of immediate logical consequences of this idiocy, but that would be illegal (a shame, really).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
thefaux 3y ago
For me, SBF's fraud is a comorbidity but not likely the underlying cause of the suicides. By similar logic, should we imprison all tobacco executives? Personally, I'm glad SBF is being held accountable but this sentence seems very harsh, especially given that I expect all of his coconspirators will mostly be let off the hook.
- q3k 3y ago
  > By similar logic, should we imprison all tobacco executives? If it was for me to decide - yes, absolutely.
- n2d4 3y ago
  > By similar logic, should we imprison all tobacco executives? If they committed crimes to sell tobacco (which, to my knowledge, is true for at least some of them), absolutely, yes.

helf 3y ago

[dead]

davidwritesbugs 3y ago

Yes. He's been made an example of. That's kind of the point: "Tempted to commit fraud on a huge scale and wreck thousands of lives? Consider what we did to this guy."

antonchekhov 3y ago
On a much more severe scale, this is clearly the message that the Kremlin lavishly displayed of the initial treatment of the suspects involved in the Moscow Crocus Hall shootings/bombing - the results of severe torture send an unmistakable message of "Do not be tempted to try this (terrorism/attempted revolution" to the citizenry, with the implicit message that their very-short remaining lifespan will be very painful.
- chongli 3y ago
  "Do not be tempted to try this (terrorism/attempted revolution" to the citizenry And the citizenry are the only ones left who can be deterred by this message. Islamic State will switch to using suicide bombers who have no fear of torture. My personal theory is that Prigozhin's aborted mutiny last year and Ukraine's sustained drone campaign against Russian oil infrastructure paved the way to the Crocus Hall attack. Now the doors have been opened and Russia's internal security has been revealed for the paper tiger that it is. Every single paramilitary group with a bone to pick with Russia has now been forcefully made aware of Putin's weakness and now they'll be lining up to copy these attacks. All the while, he continues to try to blame Ukraine for this despite all evidence to the contrary. Scary times to be living in Russia right now!

crispyambulance 3y ago

> A sentence of 25 years completely destroys his life. No, it does not "destroy his life". He will be in his early/mid-50's when gets out. Someone with his privilege, education and resources should have known better. It's hard to feel sympathy. I expect that sufficient punishment in cases like this will serve as a deterrent for others like SBF who would do the same. Hopefully he is ALSO restricted, for life, from ever working in finance again.

tyingq 3y ago
>Hopefully he is ALSO restricted, for life, from ever working in finance again. A felony conviction is pretty effective for heavily restricting any type of employment. The universal and cheap access to background checks means work is either places that deliberately have "hire a felon" programs or some type of self-employment, or connections with people very high up in a company. Though all those angles are also complicated if any sort of state licensing is involved.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  That doesn't actually seem to be the case for white collar criminals though. That guy from Wolf of Wall street is conning people to this very day, including being a hype guy for crypto scams!
  - tyingq 3y ago
    I don't know for sure, but "hype guy" probably means self-employed and companies pay his company for that sort of thing. That is available for blue-collar felons also.
- gorbachev 3y ago
  Is it everywhere though? He's already proven he's perfectly fine running his empires from countries with a more relaxed attitude to financial regulations.
hereonout2 3y ago
I didn't read any sympathy in that comment, they just seem to be pointing out that 25 years is not a "low" sentence. I would also agree that spending a 3rd of your life in prison is in effect destroying it.

fckgw 3y ago

Go read the victim impact statements sometime. He destroyed lots of people's lives.

mnau 3y ago

As far as I am concerned, when you steal from me, you robbed me of piece of my life. The time I spend earning that money, instead of being with friends or just pursuing a hobby or just wasting it on HN. How many lifetimes worth of time were destroyed by his fraud. It's definitely not high punishment.

anon291 3y ago
I mean... At the end of the day everyone 'invested' their money here. The risks of high interest Bitcoin accounts were well known and elucidated by all reputable sources. If you lost money in this, I'm truly sorry, but realistically what did you expect. It wasn't even a bank (and remember if your bank loses money, no one's going to jail as long as they followed regulations).
- mnau 3y ago
  I haven't lost any money, I avoid crypto. The difference is consent and malicious behavior. When I invest into stock market, it can always go down. When you move your customers money to save your other failing company, it's fraud. There is no consent and there is malicious behavior. Crypto repeats all failings of old-fashioned banking system we have learned over 2 centuries, except it's "with blockchain" now.

selfmodruntime 3y ago

Retribution is a part of the justice system