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> In fact, God requires each act be done in love or He won’t reward it at all. No showmanship I think that is key. Too often we try to appear loving, to earn G

> In fact, God requires each act be done in love or He won’t reward it at all. No showmanship I think that is key. Too often we try to appear loving, to earn God's favor. We grabbed hold of the pulpit, to prove our ministry value, and in so doing, we quenched the Holy Spirit; to attempt to say it was us who did the work, not He -- since we worked to be loved, rather than accepted the free offer of salvation, and accepted that God loves us not based on our works. Only then will it be no showmanship, and enacted from love If we don't get that key, (and sometimes we dont), then @talldayo's perspective would be right in saying religion is an empty shell of ideology, grasping to appear loveable, rather than knowning it is loved, and living from that perfect security I think this was the key to the revival you talked about in Wales, where crime stopped, and on duty police would form choirs to sing carols -- they sang "Here is love, vast as an ocean"

talldayo 3y ago
I partially agree - the core of what you're saying doesn't need Christianity or faith to reinforce. People can find salvation, lifelong happiness and spiritual fulfillment from something as simple as visiting their hometown. There are hundreds of mechanisms to ground people in their communities without using faith as a corollary for commitment. Lions Club, Boy Scouts, food shelter volunteers and firefighters all roughly serve the same purpose in serving the community while enriching the individual. Without trying to make anyone angry, I legitimately believe religion as a concept is obsolete. My impression is that Christianity is blatantly manmade, and adapted to each society in accordance with how servile the audience is. That's not to say it's an ineffective tool, but propaganda and torture can also be effective tools that we consider irrational and unhealthy under a liberal democracy. I think that any state that respects the individual sovereignty of it's citizens would not turn around and spend their tax-dollars on non-secular investments.
- tsegratis 3y ago
  > Without trying to make anyone ... Thanks for engaging, and have no fear of that :^) > I legitimately believe religion as a concept is obsolete I think this is correct, from your world viewpoint. But the key to our difference is in two viewpoints: A ship is sinking. Do you dispise the weakness, and strengthen the ship? Or do you say the sinking is inevitable, we must abandon ship? The first group must dispise the second for giving up. The second is Christian -- this world will end, we cannot hope in our own strength, we must hope in Christ The first group is Nietzschien. We must throw out the weak and become masters These two viewpoints are deeply opposed I have two notes here: One is, I think Nietzschien thought leads to a society you don't want to live in. The second is that science says the universe is a sinking ship: we began in nothing, we end in meaningless heat death. Nietzsche hoped to escape this by becoming the overman, a strong enough master to create his own meaning A third note, against Christianity, is that the second group must become slaves to Christ, and this is a hard route to take. I believe this is the reason most people choose to join that first group But anyway, I appreciate your time. For me this has been my second most positive and enlightening conversation on HN, so even if you step away, know that I appreciate you and your forthrightness
  - tsegratis 3y ago
    As resurrection day is coming, I realize the sinking ship analogy inverts Nietzsche aimed to save his life. Jesus aimed to give his life Jesus saves the weak. Nietzsche does not Apologies for pushing you hard. I think if I had found this foundation of life giving love, I would of treated you better, and found truth -- the one who freely gives his life, freely places truth first; and this is love

talldayo 3y ago

I partially agree - the core of what you're saying doesn't need Christianity or faith to reinforce. People can find salvation, lifelong happiness and spiritual fulfillment from something as simple as visiting their hometown. There are hundreds of mechanisms to ground people in their communities without using faith as a corollary for commitment. Lions Club, Boy Scouts, food shelter volunteers and firefighters all roughly serve the same purpose in serving the community while enriching the individual. Without trying to make anyone angry, I legitimately believe religion as a concept is obsolete. My impression is that Christianity is blatantly manmade, and adapted to each society in accordance with how servile the audience is. That's not to say it's an ineffective tool, but propaganda and torture can also be effective tools that we consider irrational and unhealthy under a liberal democracy. I think that any state that respects the individual sovereignty of it's citizens would not turn around and spend their tax-dollars on non-secular investments.

tsegratis 3y ago
> Without trying to make anyone ... Thanks for engaging, and have no fear of that :^) > I legitimately believe religion as a concept is obsolete I think this is correct, from your world viewpoint. But the key to our difference is in two viewpoints: A ship is sinking. Do you dispise the weakness, and strengthen the ship? Or do you say the sinking is inevitable, we must abandon ship? The first group must dispise the second for giving up. The second is Christian -- this world will end, we cannot hope in our own strength, we must hope in Christ The first group is Nietzschien. We must throw out the weak and become masters These two viewpoints are deeply opposed I have two notes here: One is, I think Nietzschien thought leads to a society you don't want to live in. The second is that science says the universe is a sinking ship: we began in nothing, we end in meaningless heat death. Nietzsche hoped to escape this by becoming the overman, a strong enough master to create his own meaning A third note, against Christianity, is that the second group must become slaves to Christ, and this is a hard route to take. I believe this is the reason most people choose to join that first group But anyway, I appreciate your time. For me this has been my second most positive and enlightening conversation on HN, so even if you step away, know that I appreciate you and your forthrightness
- tsegratis 3y ago
  As resurrection day is coming, I realize the sinking ship analogy inverts Nietzsche aimed to save his life. Jesus aimed to give his life Jesus saves the weak. Nietzsche does not Apologies for pushing you hard. I think if I had found this foundation of life giving love, I would of treated you better, and found truth -- the one who freely gives his life, freely places truth first; and this is love