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I would love to see a study on how banning social media impacts ADHD symptoms. The current wisdom is as soon as a diagnosis is made: go straight on the meds be

I would love to see a study on how banning social media impacts ADHD symptoms. The current wisdom is as soon as a diagnosis is made: go straight on the meds because there is minimal side-effects. So environmental modifications as treatment are not explored. Plus, once meds are involved, you now have a stimulant dependence to deal with too involving a afternoon crash, and increased anxiety, etc. Then your on anti-depressants to counteract these side-effects, etc. etc. I was listening to the All-In podcast and Chamath's child got a diagnosis recently, and they said: absolutely no meds. Then took his iPad away and symptoms decreased dramatically.

Llamamoe 3y ago
Sure, in light cases it might help, but mostly you see news/social media amplifying ableistic "look at <other people with>, they're managing, why aren't you? it's obviously your lifestyle choices" But talk to any people who actually have ADHD and you'll realize that this doesn't help anyone: ADHD doesn't mean "easily distracted", it means "inability to maintain control over focus", and taking distractions away doesn't make this even marginally less impactful. You might be more likely to come back to a task instead of getting lost in distractions, but it's never gonna be enough for anyone but the lightest cases and misdiagnoses. Just stop trying to decide how people should treat their disabling medical conditions. You've got millions saying "stimulants are the only thing that helped", and yet every time the topic of ADHD comes up, someone goes "hmm but maybe we shouldn't give people stims, and force them to use self-control they don't have to stop having ADHD ??"
- StefanBatory 3y ago
  If someone had a broken arm you wouldn't tell them to exercise that arm more and that it's fine. Or that back in time people didnt had casts and they were fine. I don't understand why so many people act otherwise when it does come to issues you can't see. I don't have ADHD but I have friends who do. And no it's not a question of willpower they need meds to function. So I'm very sensitive when it comes to people saying it's on them like poster before you somewhat implies. :(
  - Swordfish12345 3y ago
    > they need meds to function Once you start taking meds you develop dependence and so your definitely need them. But if there was a simpler environmental cause/solution, now that is out of reach entirely. It would take years for their mind to re-balance. If you tried everything and nothing worked, then go for the meds, and take on the risks and side-effects. But no one does this. They get diagnosed and then straight on meds for the rest of their life.
    - eqvinox 3y ago
      > Once you start taking meds you develop dependence and so your definitely need them. In this generality, this statement is plain false folk tale. It certainly applies for some conditions and treatments, but without a study to back it up you should not be making this statement in regards to ADHD and its medications. > If you tried everything and nothing worked, then go for the meds, and take on the risks and side-effects. But no one does this. They get diagnosed and then straight on meds for the rest of their life. This is equally untrue. I can't make statements about other places and health care systems, but where I live they throw the kitchen sink at you for about a year or two before they progressively walk you up to the more "extreme" medication if nothing else helped.
      - eqvinox 3y ago
        > If you tried everything and nothing worked, then go for the meds, and take on the risks and side-effects. By the way — you say this with some nonchalance. Those two years of "tried everything and nothing worked" cost me my university degree.
        StefanBatory 3y ago
        Someone without ADHD will never understand this, I think.
        Swordfish12345 3y ago
        May I ask: when you say you "tried everything and nothing worked"...was this before you knew about the existence of ADHD? The tragedy I find is that people first discover ADHD and then go straight on meds. They don't use this new realization and understanding of their condition to try to solve it without medication. And once you begin medication, your brain starts to change, and you really can't isolate whether a behavioral change is actually working independent of your medicated state. So begins a long journey of decreasing efficacy of the meds to the point that you will end up worse than where you started. Also curious what you did try? What was the longest time you disconnected from the internet and social media? How much did you exercise?
- Swordfish12345 3y ago
  > mostly you see news/social media amplifying ableistic... It's actually the opposite. It is now practically forbidden to criticize anything related with ADHD. After reading all the literature I concluded there were huge problems with almost every aspect of it. Then you go try to tell people and you are tarred and feathered. Then look at incentives: on one side is: "a citizen concerned that maybe taking stimulant meds is going to cause greater problems" vs "drug companies and psych industry making huge money from increasing lifetime prescriptions of stimulants". The people on the "hang on a minute" side of things are concerned about health and safety of society. They stand to make ZERO money from raising the alarm. On the other side its billions of dollars. > trying to decide how people should treat their disabling medical conditions. Trying to raise awareness of risks. I think people don't understand the risks. They see a smart pill with no side-effects. Do what you like.
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - deleted 3y ago
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  - eqvinox 3y ago
    > After reading all the literature I concluded there were huge problems with almost every aspect of it. Then you go try to tell people and you are tarred and feathered. You should probably cite some of that literature.
    - Swordfish12345 3y ago
      https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.814763/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2011.11060940 https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2011.1... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25066615/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25066615/
      - 3y ago
throwaway11460 3y ago
Symptoms most likely didn't decrease dramatically, it's just no longer as visible and easily recognizable to the parents; they also likely started to spend more time with their child, helping them keep attention to tasks that need it.
chownie 3y ago
Parents are notoriously unreliable witnesses if you're looking out for signs of neurodivergency. It's just as likely that the symptoms aren't gone at all, they're just less visible now that they have excluded the one marker they had noticed.
- Woshiwuja 3y ago
  Also adhd is highly hereditary. My dad probably has it too, ofc he wouldnt notice
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Woshiwuja 3y ago
1. You cannot reasonably ban social media at this point. 2. Where are antidepressant coming from? 3. Non-stimulating meds exist. Feeding amphetamines to a kid isnt smart. 4. Would you tell someone who got an organ transplant to not take immunosuppressors because he will be dependent on them? ofc you wouldnt.
- Swordfish12345 3y ago
  > You cannot reasonably ban social media at this point You can block it and measure consumption. This is easy. > 2. antidepressant Originally stims weren't suppose to be used if someone is depressed. But now heaps of people are on both. If you are spiking dopamine you are bound to have a crash and the symptoms of it. There is a lot of reports of this. This crash can feel like depression. So its like a cycle of one drug covering for another. > 4. Would you tell someone... What is the _organ transplant event_ analagous to in an ADHD scenario? Does not fit.
  - Woshiwuja 3y ago
    Measuring consumption is NOT easy for someone with adhd. You are mixing different mental problems in a random garble of words that mean nothing. Also how does that not fit? its literally the same thing.
    - Swordfish12345 3y ago
      > Measuring consumption is NOT easy for someone with adhd There are ample tools like screen time. Imagine being on meds for 10 years and then realizing that what you really needed was to just block distractions more judiciously and set more deadlines. > its literally the same thing. The cause was the acute organ transplant. What is the acute cause for ADHD?
      - Woshiwuja 3y ago
        The cause for adhd is literally a disfunction of the dopamine receptors in your brain. You dont understand what adhd is like. "just block distractions lol". Like telling someone who is depressed "just be happy" or someone with anxiety "just dont worry about it".
eqvinox 3y ago
> I would love to see a study on how banning social media impacts ADHD symptoms. Most of my ADHD social circle does in fact not use any social media. Reading/posting on HN does kinda count tho, I guess.

Llamamoe 3y ago

Sure, in light cases it might help, but mostly you see news/social media amplifying ableistic "look at <other people with>, they're managing, why aren't you? it's obviously your lifestyle choices" But talk to any people who actually have ADHD and you'll realize that this doesn't help anyone: ADHD doesn't mean "easily distracted", it means "inability to maintain control over focus", and taking distractions away doesn't make this even marginally less impactful. You might be more likely to come back to a task instead of getting lost in distractions, but it's never gonna be enough for anyone but the lightest cases and misdiagnoses. Just stop trying to decide how people should treat their disabling medical conditions. You've got millions saying "stimulants are the only thing that helped", and yet every time the topic of ADHD comes up, someone goes "hmm but maybe we shouldn't give people stims, and force them to use self-control they don't have to stop having ADHD ??"

StefanBatory 3y ago
If someone had a broken arm you wouldn't tell them to exercise that arm more and that it's fine. Or that back in time people didnt had casts and they were fine. I don't understand why so many people act otherwise when it does come to issues you can't see. I don't have ADHD but I have friends who do. And no it's not a question of willpower they need meds to function. So I'm very sensitive when it comes to people saying it's on them like poster before you somewhat implies. :(
- Swordfish12345 3y ago
  > they need meds to function Once you start taking meds you develop dependence and so your definitely need them. But if there was a simpler environmental cause/solution, now that is out of reach entirely. It would take years for their mind to re-balance. If you tried everything and nothing worked, then go for the meds, and take on the risks and side-effects. But no one does this. They get diagnosed and then straight on meds for the rest of their life.
  - eqvinox 3y ago
    > Once you start taking meds you develop dependence and so your definitely need them. In this generality, this statement is plain false folk tale. It certainly applies for some conditions and treatments, but without a study to back it up you should not be making this statement in regards to ADHD and its medications. > If you tried everything and nothing worked, then go for the meds, and take on the risks and side-effects. But no one does this. They get diagnosed and then straight on meds for the rest of their life. This is equally untrue. I can't make statements about other places and health care systems, but where I live they throw the kitchen sink at you for about a year or two before they progressively walk you up to the more "extreme" medication if nothing else helped.
    - eqvinox 3y ago
      > If you tried everything and nothing worked, then go for the meds, and take on the risks and side-effects. By the way — you say this with some nonchalance. Those two years of "tried everything and nothing worked" cost me my university degree.
      - StefanBatory 3y ago
        Someone without ADHD will never understand this, I think.
      - Swordfish12345 3y ago
        May I ask: when you say you "tried everything and nothing worked"...was this before you knew about the existence of ADHD? The tragedy I find is that people first discover ADHD and then go straight on meds. They don't use this new realization and understanding of their condition to try to solve it without medication. And once you begin medication, your brain starts to change, and you really can't isolate whether a behavioral change is actually working independent of your medicated state. So begins a long journey of decreasing efficacy of the meds to the point that you will end up worse than where you started. Also curious what you did try? What was the longest time you disconnected from the internet and social media? How much did you exercise?
Swordfish12345 3y ago
> mostly you see news/social media amplifying ableistic... It's actually the opposite. It is now practically forbidden to criticize anything related with ADHD. After reading all the literature I concluded there were huge problems with almost every aspect of it. Then you go try to tell people and you are tarred and feathered. Then look at incentives: on one side is: "a citizen concerned that maybe taking stimulant meds is going to cause greater problems" vs "drug companies and psych industry making huge money from increasing lifetime prescriptions of stimulants". The people on the "hang on a minute" side of things are concerned about health and safety of society. They stand to make ZERO money from raising the alarm. On the other side its billions of dollars. > trying to decide how people should treat their disabling medical conditions. Trying to raise awareness of risks. I think people don't understand the risks. They see a smart pill with no side-effects. Do what you like.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- eqvinox 3y ago
  > After reading all the literature I concluded there were huge problems with almost every aspect of it. Then you go try to tell people and you are tarred and feathered. You should probably cite some of that literature.
  - Swordfish12345 3y ago
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.814763/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2011.11060940 https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2011.1... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25066615/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25066615/
    - 3y ago

throwaway11460 3y ago

Symptoms most likely didn't decrease dramatically, it's just no longer as visible and easily recognizable to the parents; they also likely started to spend more time with their child, helping them keep attention to tasks that need it.

chownie 3y ago

Parents are notoriously unreliable witnesses if you're looking out for signs of neurodivergency. It's just as likely that the symptoms aren't gone at all, they're just less visible now that they have excluded the one marker they had noticed.

Woshiwuja 3y ago
Also adhd is highly hereditary. My dad probably has it too, ofc he wouldnt notice

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Woshiwuja 3y ago

1. You cannot reasonably ban social media at this point. 2. Where are antidepressant coming from? 3. Non-stimulating meds exist. Feeding amphetamines to a kid isnt smart. 4. Would you tell someone who got an organ transplant to not take immunosuppressors because he will be dependent on them? ofc you wouldnt.

Swordfish12345 3y ago
> You cannot reasonably ban social media at this point You can block it and measure consumption. This is easy. > 2. antidepressant Originally stims weren't suppose to be used if someone is depressed. But now heaps of people are on both. If you are spiking dopamine you are bound to have a crash and the symptoms of it. There is a lot of reports of this. This crash can feel like depression. So its like a cycle of one drug covering for another. > 4. Would you tell someone... What is the _organ transplant event_ analagous to in an ADHD scenario? Does not fit.
- Woshiwuja 3y ago
  Measuring consumption is NOT easy for someone with adhd. You are mixing different mental problems in a random garble of words that mean nothing. Also how does that not fit? its literally the same thing.
  - Swordfish12345 3y ago
    > Measuring consumption is NOT easy for someone with adhd There are ample tools like screen time. Imagine being on meds for 10 years and then realizing that what you really needed was to just block distractions more judiciously and set more deadlines. > its literally the same thing. The cause was the acute organ transplant. What is the acute cause for ADHD?
    - Woshiwuja 3y ago
      The cause for adhd is literally a disfunction of the dopamine receptors in your brain. You dont understand what adhd is like. "just block distractions lol". Like telling someone who is depressed "just be happy" or someone with anxiety "just dont worry about it".

eqvinox 3y ago

> I would love to see a study on how banning social media impacts ADHD symptoms. Most of my ADHD social circle does in fact not use any social media. Reading/posting on HN does kinda count tho, I guess.