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The only real peace (aka "normalization") we have (had?) is with the UAE. We only have "peace" with Egypt and Jordan on paper. This is much worse than a cold

The only real peace (aka "normalization") we have (had?) is with the UAE. We only have "peace" with Egypt and Jordan on paper. This is much worse than a cold war situation between the US and the Soviet Union back in the time. Their armies still define Israel as their main enemy. These countries are not safe for Israelis to travel. In Jordan's case we only have "peace" with the foreign royal family imposed by Britain. And even that doesn't include their queen ;) And yes, US provided and still provides military aid to terror group such as PLO, Fatah, even Hamas and PIJ (under the pretext of humanitarian aid). US even removed Houthis from the list of terror group in order to give them money (and just recently put them back on the list). Similarly with lifting sanctions on Iran, which resulted in giving them $10B. --- U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East: Historical, Recent Trends, and the FY2024 Background Request Updated August 15, 2023 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46344 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46344

lostlogin 3y ago
It’s so complicated. Hamas was elected if memory serves, and while getting them to renounce violence would seem ideal, how could they? Israel wasn’t going to. They have behaved terribly and until someone starts behaving better, it’s going to carry on as it has for so long. Peace with Egypt has been maintained and relations with Egypt seem to be improving and are ok - what am I missing? There seems very little chance of war.
- nivertech 3y ago
  Egypt violated almost every signed treaty. Sinai was supposed to be a demilitarized zone, slowly it was filled with the Egyptian army. Egypt built multiple tunnels under the Suetz canal. Yet our governments and military still trying to appease them, in the same way as they did to Hamas. And how do you think all these advanced weapons (RPGs, anti-tank missiles, thermal bombs, etc.) got into 'azza[1]? How did their terrorists go to train in Iran? Why do you think Egypt opposes an Israeli presence on the border in Raphiakh[2]? --- [1,2] I'm using the original biblical place names here, instead of the English distortion of a broken Arabic pronunciation of their Hebrew names.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    I’m surprised at this. According to the Wiki, Israel has agreed to Egyptian military being there. Relations have thawed a lot as far as I can tell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Israel_peace_treaty https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Israel_peace_treaty
    - nivertech 3y ago
      > Yet our governments and military still trying to appease them, in the same way as they did to Hamas. They turn a blind eye and try to appease Egypt, but it never works in the long run. Our politicians and generals think short-term, they just want to finish their term and get their lavish pensions, and lucrative security contracts from the US, or a high-paying position in some Washington-funded military research think tank.
JacobiX 3y ago
From the same report, "U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East": Israel has been the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II, receiving $158 billion. Jordan for example received $26.4 billion from 1951 to 2020. >> Similarly with lifting sanctions on Iran, which resulted in giving them $10B. In the case of Iran, it was not a matter of receiving $10 billion in aid, but rather the release of $10 billion of Iranian funds that had been frozen.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  That puts rather a different spin on things. Arming one with weapons, versus letting the other have its money. Neither meet my definition of ‘aid’.
  - nivertech 3y ago
    > versus letting the other have its money OK, let Putin have his money then. The truth is, US giving "aid", imposing or lifting sanctions exactly to protect their interests, and to increase their leverage, not because they care about other countries in question. For decades our country tries to get rid of this "aid", but it's virtually impossible.
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      I completely agree. However I assume you exclude Israel and you’d like to keep American aid?
      - nivertech 3y ago
        No, we don't need it. This "aid" is a net loss for us. It’s the reason US State Dept treats us like Puerto Rico, without giving us any of the perks of Puerto Rico's status, like tax exemption and unrestricted access to the US mainland. Netanyahu tried to get rid of American military "aid" in the past, but he failed to do so. Aid must be spent to purchase arms from American suppliers at greatly inflated prices. It also creates perverse incentives that ultimately weakens, if not cripples, our military.

lostlogin 3y ago

It’s so complicated. Hamas was elected if memory serves, and while getting them to renounce violence would seem ideal, how could they? Israel wasn’t going to. They have behaved terribly and until someone starts behaving better, it’s going to carry on as it has for so long. Peace with Egypt has been maintained and relations with Egypt seem to be improving and are ok - what am I missing? There seems very little chance of war.

nivertech 3y ago
Egypt violated almost every signed treaty. Sinai was supposed to be a demilitarized zone, slowly it was filled with the Egyptian army. Egypt built multiple tunnels under the Suetz canal. Yet our governments and military still trying to appease them, in the same way as they did to Hamas. And how do you think all these advanced weapons (RPGs, anti-tank missiles, thermal bombs, etc.) got into 'azza[1]? How did their terrorists go to train in Iran? Why do you think Egypt opposes an Israeli presence on the border in Raphiakh[2]? --- [1,2] I'm using the original biblical place names here, instead of the English distortion of a broken Arabic pronunciation of their Hebrew names.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  I’m surprised at this. According to the Wiki, Israel has agreed to Egyptian military being there. Relations have thawed a lot as far as I can tell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Israel_peace_treaty https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Israel_peace_treaty
  - nivertech 3y ago
    > Yet our governments and military still trying to appease them, in the same way as they did to Hamas. They turn a blind eye and try to appease Egypt, but it never works in the long run. Our politicians and generals think short-term, they just want to finish their term and get their lavish pensions, and lucrative security contracts from the US, or a high-paying position in some Washington-funded military research think tank.

JacobiX 3y ago

From the same report, "U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East": Israel has been the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II, receiving $158 billion. Jordan for example received $26.4 billion from 1951 to 2020. >> Similarly with lifting sanctions on Iran, which resulted in giving them $10B. In the case of Iran, it was not a matter of receiving $10 billion in aid, but rather the release of $10 billion of Iranian funds that had been frozen.

lostlogin 3y ago
That puts rather a different spin on things. Arming one with weapons, versus letting the other have its money. Neither meet my definition of ‘aid’.
- nivertech 3y ago
  > versus letting the other have its money OK, let Putin have his money then. The truth is, US giving "aid", imposing or lifting sanctions exactly to protect their interests, and to increase their leverage, not because they care about other countries in question. For decades our country tries to get rid of this "aid", but it's virtually impossible.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    I completely agree. However I assume you exclude Israel and you’d like to keep American aid?
    - nivertech 3y ago
      No, we don't need it. This "aid" is a net loss for us. It’s the reason US State Dept treats us like Puerto Rico, without giving us any of the perks of Puerto Rico's status, like tax exemption and unrestricted access to the US mainland. Netanyahu tried to get rid of American military "aid" in the past, but he failed to do so. Aid must be spent to purchase arms from American suppliers at greatly inflated prices. It also creates perverse incentives that ultimately weakens, if not cripples, our military.