7 ms·

I agree directionally, but fares only make up 23% of MTA's operating budget https://new.mta.info/budget/MTA-operating-budget-basics https://new.mta.info/budget

I agree directionally, but fares only make up 23% of MTA's operating budget https://new.mta.info/budget/MTA-operating-budget-basics https://new.mta.info/budget/MTA-operating-budget-basics

Eisenstein 3y ago
Does that mean that reducing fares will not impact them?
- bitvoid 3y ago
  No? They said they agreed. They were just clarifying that tickets don't fully cover the costs as implied by the parent comment.
londons_explore 3y ago
It is common worldwide for governments to subsidize public transit. - in this case a ~300% subsidy on the fare. However, in 'failed states', where the government presumably doesn't subsidize anything, you often find independent minibus operators zooming around town, carrying ~20 passengers each, offering in aggregate a very good public transit service, charging a few coins adding up to barely more than the fuel cost for the bus. How come poor nations and failed states can manage to provide good public transit so so much cheaper than anyone else?
- fodkodrasz 3y ago
  > How come poor nations and failed states can manage to provide good public transit so so much cheaper than anyone else? By using badly maintained, very old vehicles, with low to no enforced standards of operations for safety. By operators exploiting themselves because of only coarsely tracked costs and low level of reserves. By not having to conform to strict schedules and not providing service in off hours, only when good business is expected. This makes the infrastructure virtually nonexistent, hurting the general economy by limiting the possibilities of those having to take these forms of public transport. By applying demand based pricing, for example when working off hours charging more to cover the running costs which are split among less users. By not working for peanuts, it is your false perception because you have far more income (and disposable income) than those who have to live on incomes local to that area. If PPP adjusted it is often quite a sum. Just to name a few factors. In general well run welfare states, or at least moderately well run authoritarian states (also having some welfare aspects many Americans would probably call communism) tend to have good public transport, for different reasons, and share taxis are generally not considered a good public transit.
  - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
    >By operators exploiting themselves because of only coarsely tracked costs and low level of reserves. Let's also not ignore outright gang/mob style affiliation of minibus transit organisations that will then also actively sabotage government public transport on their post profitable routes. These private entities in the third world fill a role, but often are also rent-seeking and carve it out for themselves from a government without the willpower to A) build proper public transit infrastructure and B) defend it from bad actors.
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  Because their labor costs nothing. I took these minibuses a lot in Ukraine, Georgia (the country), Armenia, Russian Far East and Kazakhstan. The cars work and aren't entirely unsafe, but I bet none of them would pass western technical and emission inspection. They fix it themselves using scrap and they keep it running for 1M+ km.
  - Powdering7082 3y ago
    Yeah last time I rode in a minibus (guagua (sp?)) was in the dominican republic. It was a 4 door sedan carrying ~9 people. I had shift the car into drive from park because the driver didn't want to reach across the lap of the female passenger who was also sitting in the drivers seat with him. My memory was that the car had many warning lights on and turned off while we were driving. Somehow he was able to restart it without it being in park while we were coasting. It was extremely cheap.
- paulgb 3y ago
  > you often find independent minibus operators zooming around town, carrying ~20 passengers each, offering in aggregate a very good public transit service, charging a few coins adding up to barely more than the fuel cost for the bus. NYC actually has an analogue to this! (Had? I’m not sure how many of these routes survived covid) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_vans_in_the_New_York_metropolitan_area https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_vans_in_the_New_York_...
SECProto 3y ago
Yeah, it was a huge simplification to be sure. The comment was talking about cutting his train ticket by $15, so I assumed it was more of a long distance thing - amtrack has farebox recovery of 95%

I agree directionally, but fares only make up 23% of MTA's operating budget https://new.mta.info/budget/MTA-operating-budget-basics https://new.mta.info/budget/MTA-operating-budget-basics

Eisenstein 3y ago

Does that mean that reducing fares will not impact them?

bitvoid 3y ago
No? They said they agreed. They were just clarifying that tickets don't fully cover the costs as implied by the parent comment.

londons_explore 3y ago

It is common worldwide for governments to subsidize public transit. - in this case a ~300% subsidy on the fare. However, in 'failed states', where the government presumably doesn't subsidize anything, you often find independent minibus operators zooming around town, carrying ~20 passengers each, offering in aggregate a very good public transit service, charging a few coins adding up to barely more than the fuel cost for the bus. How come poor nations and failed states can manage to provide good public transit so so much cheaper than anyone else?

fodkodrasz 3y ago
> How come poor nations and failed states can manage to provide good public transit so so much cheaper than anyone else? By using badly maintained, very old vehicles, with low to no enforced standards of operations for safety. By operators exploiting themselves because of only coarsely tracked costs and low level of reserves. By not having to conform to strict schedules and not providing service in off hours, only when good business is expected. This makes the infrastructure virtually nonexistent, hurting the general economy by limiting the possibilities of those having to take these forms of public transport. By applying demand based pricing, for example when working off hours charging more to cover the running costs which are split among less users. By not working for peanuts, it is your false perception because you have far more income (and disposable income) than those who have to live on incomes local to that area. If PPP adjusted it is often quite a sum. Just to name a few factors. In general well run welfare states, or at least moderately well run authoritarian states (also having some welfare aspects many Americans would probably call communism) tend to have good public transport, for different reasons, and share taxis are generally not considered a good public transit.
- TheCapeGreek 3y ago
  >By operators exploiting themselves because of only coarsely tracked costs and low level of reserves. Let's also not ignore outright gang/mob style affiliation of minibus transit organisations that will then also actively sabotage government public transport on their post profitable routes. These private entities in the third world fill a role, but often are also rent-seeking and carve it out for themselves from a government without the willpower to A) build proper public transit infrastructure and B) defend it from bad actors.
throwaway11460 3y ago
Because their labor costs nothing. I took these minibuses a lot in Ukraine, Georgia (the country), Armenia, Russian Far East and Kazakhstan. The cars work and aren't entirely unsafe, but I bet none of them would pass western technical and emission inspection. They fix it themselves using scrap and they keep it running for 1M+ km.
- Powdering7082 3y ago
  Yeah last time I rode in a minibus (guagua (sp?)) was in the dominican republic. It was a 4 door sedan carrying ~9 people. I had shift the car into drive from park because the driver didn't want to reach across the lap of the female passenger who was also sitting in the drivers seat with him. My memory was that the car had many warning lights on and turned off while we were driving. Somehow he was able to restart it without it being in park while we were coasting. It was extremely cheap.
paulgb 3y ago
> you often find independent minibus operators zooming around town, carrying ~20 passengers each, offering in aggregate a very good public transit service, charging a few coins adding up to barely more than the fuel cost for the bus. NYC actually has an analogue to this! (Had? I’m not sure how many of these routes survived covid) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_vans_in_the_New_York_metropolitan_area https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_vans_in_the_New_York_...

SECProto 3y ago

Yeah, it was a huge simplification to be sure. The comment was talking about cutting his train ticket by $15, so I assumed it was more of a long distance thing - amtrack has farebox recovery of 95%