5 ms·

I like Safari, but nobody should be required to use it

7 points by cdme 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mattl 3y ago
I think Safari does a good job of being a snappy browser and not implementing all the user hostile crap that’s being proposed. I would like to see Mozilla work on WebKit instead of trying to keep Gecko. They’ve already shown they know how to work with it and their input could bring lots of plugins to WebKit plus a decent WebKit browser to Windows.
- talldayo 3y ago
  I would like to see Apple address Mozilla's platform complaints before working with them on a browser: https://mozilla.github.io/platform-tilt/ https://mozilla.github.io/platform-tilt/ It seems pointless to rope in a competing philosophy if you only intend to ignore it and benefit from the developer effort.
  - mattl 3y ago
    This is mostly iOS issues. I’m talking about the Macintosh version of Safari where browser competition is already a thing.
    - talldayo 3y ago
      Desktop WebKit is terrible on other OSes, in my experience. If Mozilla abandoned Gecko, I would have no reason to not use Chrome anymore.
      - mattl 3y ago
        I feel like a trillion dollar company and a group like Mozilla could fix that very easily.
        talldayo 3y ago
        I feel like the incentives are already aligned, and Apple doesn't need Mozilla to discontinue Firefox in order to make a more competitive browser.
        mattl 3y ago
        Firefox wouldn’t need to go away. Firefox could just be consumer WebKit while also being developer and bleeding edge WebKit for non-Mac users.
        talldayo 3y ago
        That makes no sense to me whatsoever, and not a single Safari or Firefox user I know would consider that a smart decision. I quite literally see zero upside to this unless you are Apple and desperate to kill the last engines fighting against Chrome and undermining their savior-complex.
        mattl 3y ago
        I see it as the only way Firefox can continue. Mozilla’s mission isn’t to make a browser anymore. “The Mozilla Foundation works to ensure the internet remains a public resource that is open and accessible to us all.” They could spend their money on so many more things instead of maintaining Gecko.
        talldayo 3y ago
        If WebKit was maintained better than Gecko on Windows, Android and Linux you might have a point. But it's not. The build system is on life-support for non-Darwin targets and Apple barely even acknowledges it exists outside the context of Safari. Mozilla would end up building a browser from scratch either way, they might as well keep what they have already and not do Apple's dirty work for them. Again, as a Firefox user I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Switching Firefox to WebKit would actually ruin the experience, and force me onto Chrome if I wanted my browser functionality back. Unless you're explicitly trying to harm browser competition, there is ostensibly no benefit to this strategy. Also, Apple is a prudish partner anyways, and the last company you'd want to trust with ensuring user freedom. Mozilla would sooner leave iOS altogether.
OhMeadhbh 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

7 points by cdme 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

I think Safari does a good job of being a snappy browser and not implementing all the user hostile crap that’s being proposed. I would like to see Mozilla work on WebKit instead of trying to keep Gecko. They’ve already shown they know how to work with it and their input could bring lots of plugins to WebKit plus a decent WebKit browser to Windows.

talldayo 3y ago
I would like to see Apple address Mozilla's platform complaints before working with them on a browser: https://mozilla.github.io/platform-tilt/ https://mozilla.github.io/platform-tilt/ It seems pointless to rope in a competing philosophy if you only intend to ignore it and benefit from the developer effort.
- mattl 3y ago
  This is mostly iOS issues. I’m talking about the Macintosh version of Safari where browser competition is already a thing.
  - talldayo 3y ago
    Desktop WebKit is terrible on other OSes, in my experience. If Mozilla abandoned Gecko, I would have no reason to not use Chrome anymore.
    - mattl 3y ago
      I feel like a trillion dollar company and a group like Mozilla could fix that very easily.
      - talldayo 3y ago
        I feel like the incentives are already aligned, and Apple doesn't need Mozilla to discontinue Firefox in order to make a more competitive browser.
        mattl 3y ago
        Firefox wouldn’t need to go away. Firefox could just be consumer WebKit while also being developer and bleeding edge WebKit for non-Mac users.
        talldayo 3y ago
        That makes no sense to me whatsoever, and not a single Safari or Firefox user I know would consider that a smart decision. I quite literally see zero upside to this unless you are Apple and desperate to kill the last engines fighting against Chrome and undermining their savior-complex.
        mattl 3y ago
        I see it as the only way Firefox can continue. Mozilla’s mission isn’t to make a browser anymore. “The Mozilla Foundation works to ensure the internet remains a public resource that is open and accessible to us all.” They could spend their money on so many more things instead of maintaining Gecko.
        talldayo 3y ago
        If WebKit was maintained better than Gecko on Windows, Android and Linux you might have a point. But it's not. The build system is on life-support for non-Darwin targets and Apple barely even acknowledges it exists outside the context of Safari. Mozilla would end up building a browser from scratch either way, they might as well keep what they have already and not do Apple's dirty work for them. Again, as a Firefox user I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Switching Firefox to WebKit would actually ruin the experience, and force me onto Chrome if I wanted my browser functionality back. Unless you're explicitly trying to harm browser competition, there is ostensibly no benefit to this strategy. Also, Apple is a prudish partner anyways, and the last company you'd want to trust with ensuring user freedom. Mozilla would sooner leave iOS altogether.

OhMeadhbh 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]