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If you prefer top-tier work-life balance and social programs, Europe is better. If you prefer having a chance at making mind-bending levels of compensation, th

If you prefer top-tier work-life balance and social programs, Europe is better. If you prefer having a chance at making mind-bending levels of compensation, the USA is better. On balance, if you want to make very good but not astonishing levels of money but remain in Europe, go to Switzerland and work for a bank while you still can. I'm not saying it's fun, just lucrative.

pfannkuchen 3y ago
> while you still can Are you referring to ageism or is banking moving out of Switzerland? Semi relatedly, big tech has US tier comp in Zurich and I’ve never really been sure why. Is the market rate there driven up that much by the banks? What about London?
- ulfw 3y ago
  Big Tech? You mean Google? who else is in Zurich? Google's salaries in Europe never really made sense
  - EuropeanTech 3y ago
    Meta, Microsoft, Apple, and Nvidia are also present in Zurich/Switzerland and are all currently hiring engineers.
- shiroiushi 3y ago
  >Semi relatedly, big tech has US tier comp in Zurich and I’ve never really been sure why. Is the market rate there driven up that much by the banks? It's probably driven up simply by the cost of living. Switzerland is a very expensive place to live compared to most of Europe. Just look at how much hotels cost there for a vacation, and then compare to some nearby cities in Italy or Germany or Austria.
- theodric 3y ago
  Not ageism, not when I was there. We'd hire people in their 60s if they could do the job. But in a way, banking is leaving Switzerland: the general trend across industries is against putting more and more roles in Switzerland when they could just as well be done for much less elsewhere. That's what is happening everywhere. The Swiss folks weren't impressed because "it's a Swiss bank!" but the thing is, it's not a Swiss bank-- it's a global bank with Swiss heritage. As of when I departed, nobody was being shoved out of their seat, but people who left weren't being replaced in-country unless their job involved turning a crank that had to be physically located in Switzerland. If the crank could be moved, it got moved. Perqs like company cars and a special restaurant for execs and boni 2* comp are long gone for newcomers. Also there are half as many huge banks in Switzerland as there were a little over a year ago, and there certainly aren't twice as many jobs in that one remaining huge bank as there were a little over a year ago, because of economies of scale. As for comp: Zurich is expensive, Switzerland is expensive, and the FAANGS have to kick out proper comp to attract people because EVERYTHING pays good money. A semi-skilled entry-level physical laborer at one of the financials can come in the door at nearly 100k, because that person has to be able to pay rent and food, too. But it's not more expensive than California. My rent on a 3-storey townhouse with parking in a close Zurich suburb on the train line was 2250 CHF, and I bought our food at Lidl and Aldi for maybe 150/week. Health insurance 550/mo for both of us. You'll pay that kind of money for rent and food in Dublin these days on a far lower salary, and you'll lose a lot more than 10-15% to tax, as well. Switzerland is a special place. Big tech has fantastic comp anywhere for the right person, tho! A FOAF at a FAANG in Poland recently bought outright a new-build $500k house with 3 years of salary-derived savings and bonus.
stavros 3y ago
> If you prefer having a chance at making mind-bending levels of compensation, the USA is better. Another good option is the lottery.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  If you have a certain set of skills/pedigree, your chances are much better than winning the lottery.
  - stavros 3y ago
    I don't know, I'm not a good person to discuss this stuff with. My total expenses are $3k/mo and I don't really need any more than that. This makes my income and savings functionally infinite, so I don't see a point in going through the rat race to buy a yacht or a plane or a supercar I don't really want.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      then why make the claim that the lottery is a good option?
      - stavros 3y ago
        Because if you're looking to make tens of millions, the lottery is about as good a chance to do that as a startup, except it takes less work to play the lottery.
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        People are not aiming for tens of millions. Just banking $5M to $10M gives you security against you and your descendants not being able to work due to thinks like disease or injury. Some people are willing to gamble and for this security, and others are not. Personally, a desk job with some politics does not sound like a bad tradeoff. You might have to live away from family for a little while, but you would be setting descendants up very well.
karaterobot 3y ago
You can certainly have a great work-life balance in the U.S., you just won't make mind-bending levels of compensation. When people are talking about 60 hour weeks and making $600k a year, they're usually thinking of FAANG companies, but it's not the case that everyone in tech in the U.S. works for one of those companies. All the non-FAANG tech companies I've worked for have had both great benefits and great work-life balance, with a salary that still competes favorably with the equivalent roles in Europe.

pfannkuchen 3y ago

> while you still can Are you referring to ageism or is banking moving out of Switzerland? Semi relatedly, big tech has US tier comp in Zurich and I’ve never really been sure why. Is the market rate there driven up that much by the banks? What about London?

ulfw 3y ago
Big Tech? You mean Google? who else is in Zurich? Google's salaries in Europe never really made sense
- EuropeanTech 3y ago
  Meta, Microsoft, Apple, and Nvidia are also present in Zurich/Switzerland and are all currently hiring engineers.
shiroiushi 3y ago
>Semi relatedly, big tech has US tier comp in Zurich and I’ve never really been sure why. Is the market rate there driven up that much by the banks? It's probably driven up simply by the cost of living. Switzerland is a very expensive place to live compared to most of Europe. Just look at how much hotels cost there for a vacation, and then compare to some nearby cities in Italy or Germany or Austria.
theodric 3y ago
Not ageism, not when I was there. We'd hire people in their 60s if they could do the job. But in a way, banking is leaving Switzerland: the general trend across industries is against putting more and more roles in Switzerland when they could just as well be done for much less elsewhere. That's what is happening everywhere. The Swiss folks weren't impressed because "it's a Swiss bank!" but the thing is, it's not a Swiss bank-- it's a global bank with Swiss heritage. As of when I departed, nobody was being shoved out of their seat, but people who left weren't being replaced in-country unless their job involved turning a crank that had to be physically located in Switzerland. If the crank could be moved, it got moved. Perqs like company cars and a special restaurant for execs and boni 2* comp are long gone for newcomers. Also there are half as many huge banks in Switzerland as there were a little over a year ago, and there certainly aren't twice as many jobs in that one remaining huge bank as there were a little over a year ago, because of economies of scale. As for comp: Zurich is expensive, Switzerland is expensive, and the FAANGS have to kick out proper comp to attract people because EVERYTHING pays good money. A semi-skilled entry-level physical laborer at one of the financials can come in the door at nearly 100k, because that person has to be able to pay rent and food, too. But it's not more expensive than California. My rent on a 3-storey townhouse with parking in a close Zurich suburb on the train line was 2250 CHF, and I bought our food at Lidl and Aldi for maybe 150/week. Health insurance 550/mo for both of us. You'll pay that kind of money for rent and food in Dublin these days on a far lower salary, and you'll lose a lot more than 10-15% to tax, as well. Switzerland is a special place. Big tech has fantastic comp anywhere for the right person, tho! A FOAF at a FAANG in Poland recently bought outright a new-build $500k house with 3 years of salary-derived savings and bonus.

stavros 3y ago

> If you prefer having a chance at making mind-bending levels of compensation, the USA is better. Another good option is the lottery.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
If you have a certain set of skills/pedigree, your chances are much better than winning the lottery.
- stavros 3y ago
  I don't know, I'm not a good person to discuss this stuff with. My total expenses are $3k/mo and I don't really need any more than that. This makes my income and savings functionally infinite, so I don't see a point in going through the rat race to buy a yacht or a plane or a supercar I don't really want.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    then why make the claim that the lottery is a good option?
    - stavros 3y ago
      Because if you're looking to make tens of millions, the lottery is about as good a chance to do that as a startup, except it takes less work to play the lottery.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        People are not aiming for tens of millions. Just banking $5M to $10M gives you security against you and your descendants not being able to work due to thinks like disease or injury. Some people are willing to gamble and for this security, and others are not. Personally, a desk job with some politics does not sound like a bad tradeoff. You might have to live away from family for a little while, but you would be setting descendants up very well.

karaterobot 3y ago

You can certainly have a great work-life balance in the U.S., you just won't make mind-bending levels of compensation. When people are talking about 60 hour weeks and making $600k a year, they're usually thinking of FAANG companies, but it's not the case that everyone in tech in the U.S. works for one of those companies. All the non-FAANG tech companies I've worked for have had both great benefits and great work-life balance, with a salary that still competes favorably with the equivalent roles in Europe.