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> You’re not there for any of those things from cars. I don't know how you can say that (other than your personal preference). The cars have been there, doing

> You’re not there for any of those things from cars. I don't know how you can say that (other than your personal preference). The cars have been there, doing those things, for generations. They are quieter and pollute less now. Are they trying to turn NY into Long Island? Keep the things that make NY unique and special - people obviously love it.

acdha 3y ago
Cars do pollute less but are still a major hazard and quality of life reduction. If you ask people why they come to NYC, nobody says it’s to listen to people honk at each other or almost get run over in the crosswalk by an Uber driver. People may say that they accept the background car noise as a cost of living in the city but nobody sees it as a positive.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Pretty definitive statements, but what are they based on?
  - acdha 3y ago
    Let’s start with your survey results showing that people like Manhattan for the car noise. Please link to your data and methodology. My support is based on both the real health costs and direct injuries/fatalities - see e.g. https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/abf60b https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/abf60b – and the fact that if people loved the pollution so much there wouldn’t be an entire political movement to reduce it. Beyond the topic of this thread, they’ve also had a variety of laws to punish noisy vehicles and reduce traffic: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/07/06/opinion-loud-driving-threatens-our-health https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/07/06/opinion-loud-driving-...
Clamchop 3y ago
I don't know how you can say that (other than your personal preference).
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Decades of evidence, as I said.
kelnos 3y ago
> I don't know how you can say that (other than your personal preference) Pretty sure if I went to everyone I know who lives in NYC and asked them if they'd prefer less car noise throughout the day and night, they would answer with an emphatic yes. I agree with you that car noise has been a part of NYC's backdrop for generations, but that doesn't make it a good thing, even for people who are accustomed to it. Cars still pollute plenty, especially in a dense place like Manhattan, and that pollution is a health hazard. It sounds like you'd complain if eventually everyone in NYC started driving EVs, because it'd be too quiet for your taste. Weird.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > Pretty sure if I went to everyone I know who lives in NYC and asked them if they'd prefer less car noise throughout the day and night, they would answer with an emphatic yes. Unless the people you know are much different than the ones I know, the great majority would say they don't care, many would embrace the energy of the city, and no doubt some would agree. (Of course, it depends on how you frame the question - 'do you want less car noise?', and 'do you want NY to be quiet like the suburbs?' would get different responses.)

acdha 3y ago

Cars do pollute less but are still a major hazard and quality of life reduction. If you ask people why they come to NYC, nobody says it’s to listen to people honk at each other or almost get run over in the crosswalk by an Uber driver. People may say that they accept the background car noise as a cost of living in the city but nobody sees it as a positive.

wolverine876 3y ago
Pretty definitive statements, but what are they based on?
- acdha 3y ago
  Let’s start with your survey results showing that people like Manhattan for the car noise. Please link to your data and methodology. My support is based on both the real health costs and direct injuries/fatalities - see e.g. https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/abf60b https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/abf60b – and the fact that if people loved the pollution so much there wouldn’t be an entire political movement to reduce it. Beyond the topic of this thread, they’ve also had a variety of laws to punish noisy vehicles and reduce traffic: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/07/06/opinion-loud-driving-threatens-our-health https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/07/06/opinion-loud-driving-...

Clamchop 3y ago

I don't know how you can say that (other than your personal preference).

wolverine876 3y ago
Decades of evidence, as I said.

kelnos 3y ago

> I don't know how you can say that (other than your personal preference) Pretty sure if I went to everyone I know who lives in NYC and asked them if they'd prefer less car noise throughout the day and night, they would answer with an emphatic yes. I agree with you that car noise has been a part of NYC's backdrop for generations, but that doesn't make it a good thing, even for people who are accustomed to it. Cars still pollute plenty, especially in a dense place like Manhattan, and that pollution is a health hazard. It sounds like you'd complain if eventually everyone in NYC started driving EVs, because it'd be too quiet for your taste. Weird.

wolverine876 3y ago
> Pretty sure if I went to everyone I know who lives in NYC and asked them if they'd prefer less car noise throughout the day and night, they would answer with an emphatic yes. Unless the people you know are much different than the ones I know, the great majority would say they don't care, many would embrace the energy of the city, and no doubt some would agree. (Of course, it depends on how you frame the question - 'do you want less car noise?', and 'do you want NY to be quiet like the suburbs?' would get different responses.)