6 ms·

> the component that is getting lost in our culture, which in other cultures is still more present is that grandparents play an active role in helping the young

> the component that is getting lost in our culture, which in other cultures is still more present is that grandparents play an active role in helping the young parents to raise their children. in chinese culture for example the young couple moves in with the husbands parents, and so grandparents are always around to give advice and help. That's great if the grandparents are good people. Not so much if they aren't.

aidenn0 3y ago
This retort is true of literally everything involved in raising kids. Substitute "parents" "preschool teachers" "sports coach" &c. for "grandparents" in the sentence and it's still true for the domain for the children. It's true that with grandparents you have a maximum of 4 to choose from, but you might not have more than 4 preschools to choose from either.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Arguably you can chose other teachers and coaches and daycare
  - BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
    What about crappy parents?
    - paulryanrogers 3y ago
      Exactly. That's the distinction. While you can chose other people in most roles for your kids, you cannot pick their grandparents.
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    You have up to 4 grandparents to choose from (in the case where all 4 are still living, but separated).
- sublinear 3y ago
  The best part about being a mature parent is that you have much more control over how you raise your kids. No way in hell did I ever trust teachers, grandparents, coaches, etc. over my actual parents. My parents were in their 30s when I was born. Their skepticism not only decoupled them from depending on people they didn't trust, but their perspective rubbed off on me and set me up for success. Older parents have no problem showing their kids the reality of the world early on. Individualism is not a bad thing at all if only you could convince all these people stuck in the past. This world will fall apart if we don't focus on higher quality parenting from the actual parents. Since long ago we've been saying we don't want "kids raising kids". My parents weren't the only ones thinking this way.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - thaumasiotes 3y ago
      > It’s just something old white guys said in the 1960s without support, like Jungian archetypes and things like that. It is that, but it's not just that; the concept is attested farther back. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Loyola#Disputed https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Loyola#Disputed > Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man. If Voltaire invented it from whole cloth, that's still the 18th century. Though on your topic, Piaget is an amazing example of someone just inventing a completely ridiculous theory, doing experiments that fail to support it, and getting it enshrined as wisdom anyway.
      - aidenn0 3y ago
        Oh man Piaget. Responsible for bad information on kids for both Object permanence, and abstract reasoning. His views on egocentrism at least seem not as obviously wrong as those two; not sure what modern studies have to say.
    - visarga 3y ago
      Can confirm, have 3 kids. Parenting doesn't have much to do with how kids turn out. The genetic factor is more important. Not just genes of the two parents, but also how they recombine and surface various traits. Best thing to do is to let the kid discover who they want to be. Observe and support their explorations.
robertlagrant 3y ago
> That's great if the grandparents are good people. Not so much if they aren't. This is specious. If they are particularly awful, their kid probably won't want anything to do with them raising his/her kids.
em-bee 3y ago
you can't choose your parents obviously, but having parents so bad that you don't want them in your life is not the norm. you have my sympathies if that is your experience. for most people the problem is not that they don't want their parents around, but that the parents don't feel like helping as much as their kids would need it. and here the culture makes a difference. my wife was not her mothers favorite. girls in china were always treated as secondary. and according to their tradition we should have been living with my parents. they favored their son and his wife in everything, and yet they did what they could to help their daughter, because that is simply what what grandparents in china do regardless of how well they relate to each other. but in our culture it's not, and whether grandparents are willing to help varies a lot, and it depends on the relationship to their kids
jethro_tell 3y ago
Additionally, in generational cycles where you can maintain or exceed your parent's class status without moving away. Whole swaths of the US don't have enough good jobs to maintain a middle class lifestyle for kids of middle class parents. And parents are working longer as well, meaning that overlap is less likely to happen. I went to my grandparents every Wednesday. My mom just retired, my kids are 12 and I didn't have kids until my 30s. There's so much about life that has changed the fabric of families in the last few decades

aidenn0 3y ago

This retort is true of literally everything involved in raising kids. Substitute "parents" "preschool teachers" "sports coach" &c. for "grandparents" in the sentence and it's still true for the domain for the children. It's true that with grandparents you have a maximum of 4 to choose from, but you might not have more than 4 preschools to choose from either.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
Arguably you can chose other teachers and coaches and daycare
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  What about crappy parents?
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    Exactly. That's the distinction. While you can chose other people in most roles for your kids, you cannot pick their grandparents.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  You have up to 4 grandparents to choose from (in the case where all 4 are still living, but separated).
sublinear 3y ago
The best part about being a mature parent is that you have much more control over how you raise your kids. No way in hell did I ever trust teachers, grandparents, coaches, etc. over my actual parents. My parents were in their 30s when I was born. Their skepticism not only decoupled them from depending on people they didn't trust, but their perspective rubbed off on me and set me up for success. Older parents have no problem showing their kids the reality of the world early on. Individualism is not a bad thing at all if only you could convince all these people stuck in the past. This world will fall apart if we don't focus on higher quality parenting from the actual parents. Since long ago we've been saying we don't want "kids raising kids". My parents weren't the only ones thinking this way.
- rayiner 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    > It’s just something old white guys said in the 1960s without support, like Jungian archetypes and things like that. It is that, but it's not just that; the concept is attested farther back. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Loyola#Disputed https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Loyola#Disputed > Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man. If Voltaire invented it from whole cloth, that's still the 18th century. Though on your topic, Piaget is an amazing example of someone just inventing a completely ridiculous theory, doing experiments that fail to support it, and getting it enshrined as wisdom anyway.
    - aidenn0 3y ago
      Oh man Piaget. Responsible for bad information on kids for both Object permanence, and abstract reasoning. His views on egocentrism at least seem not as obviously wrong as those two; not sure what modern studies have to say.
  - visarga 3y ago
    Can confirm, have 3 kids. Parenting doesn't have much to do with how kids turn out. The genetic factor is more important. Not just genes of the two parents, but also how they recombine and surface various traits. Best thing to do is to let the kid discover who they want to be. Observe and support their explorations.

robertlagrant 3y ago

> That's great if the grandparents are good people. Not so much if they aren't. This is specious. If they are particularly awful, their kid probably won't want anything to do with them raising his/her kids.

em-bee 3y ago

you can't choose your parents obviously, but having parents so bad that you don't want them in your life is not the norm. you have my sympathies if that is your experience. for most people the problem is not that they don't want their parents around, but that the parents don't feel like helping as much as their kids would need it. and here the culture makes a difference. my wife was not her mothers favorite. girls in china were always treated as secondary. and according to their tradition we should have been living with my parents. they favored their son and his wife in everything, and yet they did what they could to help their daughter, because that is simply what what grandparents in china do regardless of how well they relate to each other. but in our culture it's not, and whether grandparents are willing to help varies a lot, and it depends on the relationship to their kids

jethro_tell 3y ago

Additionally, in generational cycles where you can maintain or exceed your parent's class status without moving away. Whole swaths of the US don't have enough good jobs to maintain a middle class lifestyle for kids of middle class parents. And parents are working longer as well, meaning that overlap is less likely to happen. I went to my grandparents every Wednesday. My mom just retired, my kids are 12 and I didn't have kids until my 30s. There's so much about life that has changed the fabric of families in the last few decades