4 ms·

As someone who lives in the NYC metropolitan area, the problem here isn't with the idea of congestion pricing, it's with the public transit system. Public trans

As someone who lives in the NYC metropolitan area, the problem here isn't with the idea of congestion pricing, it's with the public transit system. Public transit options to travel between Midtown and Brooklyn, or Staten Island and downtown, etc. are sorely lacking, as are options to get into the city from places not well served by the MTA trains. The subways and buses are unreliable at best. Once those are fixed, I'd embrace congestion pricing. Until then, the toll only hurts people who can't easily afford to pay: it's no coincidence that those people live in the places where it's less convenient to get into Manhattan. They're stuck either paying the extra few grand each year or spending an extra hour every day on the mediocre transit system. Once NYC (*including* the other four boroughs, not just Manhattan itself) gets its public transit on par with London, Copenhagen, etc., I'll embrace the congestion pricing.

ng12 3y ago
> between Midtown and Brooklyn I don't follow. There are relatively few neighborhoods in Brooklyn without train access to Midtown (though those do tend to be the most car centric).
- tombert 3y ago
  I take the trains all the time in Brooklyn, and live here, but the person you're responding to isn't completely wrong; there's a fairly large patch of north Brooklyn/lower Queens that has pretty bad train coverage. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Official_New_York_City_Subway_Map_2013_vc.jpg/640px-Official_New_York_City_Subway_Map_2013_vc.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Of... Also, in Brooklyn, there's a lot of places that do have train coverage in the most technical sense, but that means they have exactly one line near them. This is fine, but it can be annoying if that line is your main mode of transport and it gets shut down for whatever reason. When I lived in Manhattan, even in the less-covered Washington Heights, it was comparatively easy to find another train nearby if the train I was planning to take was down. In Brooklyn, unless you're near the more metro-ey hubs, you might just be out of luck (or just take the bus).
  - ng12 3y ago
    But I don't know what the comparison is. It's definitely not London and Copenhagen. It's pretty amazing that you can take a 30+ mile ride from one end of NYC to the other for less than $3.
tombert 3y ago
> The subways and buses are unreliable at best. Everyone complains about the subway, but as someone who lives in Brooklyn it's been generally good enough to get to work without too many headaches. I live in the Brownsville/Canarsie area, and I generally take the 3 into the city, and that generally just works, but I will admit that it kind of sucks that the 3 is the only train that's easily near me. It's not usually a problem on weekdays, but it's a very annoying problem on weekends when they have to do maintenance, meaning my only easy mode of transportation is either severely limited or non-existent. [1] Still, I really don't think it's as bad as people complain about. I've lived in NYC for nine years, and deep in Brooklyn for about 5.5, without a car, and it's been "generally ok". [1] It's not completely horrible, if I'm willing to walk a bit further (about a mile) I can get to an L train and if I am willing to walk a bit further than that I can get to an A.
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  I've experienced 3 line shutdowns in the past 24 hours. F Q and 6. All while I was trying to ride them.
  - squeaky-clean 3y ago
    Lol I bet I was downvoted by people who don't even live in NYC. Pretend that public transport is a utopia. Ignore the places it exists and has issues.
- busterarm 3y ago
  When I was reverse commuting from Manhattan to Sunset Park the train would regularly shut down on the bridge and just sit there with the power off for 45 minutes or more. I regularly had 2-3hr commutes, usually 3-4 days in a row when it was bad. This was one of my main reasons for swearing off the subway before I left the city.
  - LeafItAlone 3y ago
    When was this? And what do you define as regularly?
pgodzin 3y ago
The buses will be more reliable when they aren't stuck in traffic caused by congestion.
- cute_boi 3y ago
  Many roads buses have their own lanes...
  - polygamous_bat 3y ago
    Except in lower Manhattan those bus lanes are taken over by clueless tourists or entitled folks driving around. Pretty much an everyday occasion near Union square.
    - busterarm 3y ago
      You're not even allowed to drive in bus lanes during the day and the ticket printers are AGGRESSIVE. Outside of daylight hours whether the bus even shows up or not when scheduled is practically a coin flip. Especially in Manhattan where practically every second or third scheduled bus seems to run (other than the bus lines on either side up and down Central Park).
galdosdi 3y ago
> Staten Island and downtown What a ridiculous statement? Forgot about the free ferry? Once you get to South Ferry you have a wealth of connections, the 123 (7th ave line), 456 (Lex ave line) and NQR (Broadway line).
- rappatic 3y ago
  The ferry is definitely a lot less convenient when you don't live North Shore or mid-island. That said I don't have any personal experience, I'm only speaking secondhand for Staten Island.
- mike50 3y ago
  The other suburban portions of the NYC metro have direct rail links to Manhattan not a stupid boat.
  - marnett 3y ago
    Is there more context behind S.I’s lack of subway connections? It very well could be similar to Marin County, North of SF in the Bay Area - the community aggressively pushed back against a BART line going north on the Golden Gate Bridge to keep their community insular and disconnected from the urban riffraff.
    - rappatic 3y ago
      They’ve planned a connection before, but it’s now basically considered dead. The New York Times had a great article on it a few years ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/nyregion/staten-island-subway-dreams.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/nyregion/staten-island-su....
aqme28 3y ago
> Once those are fixed, I'd embrace congestion pricing. Isn't congestion pricing being used to finance the MTA? I don't understand your complaint here, it seems like they're doing exactly what you want.
- caddemon 3y ago
  I mean there will be a delay of many years before the fixes actually happen, if that's even what the financing would go towards.
afavour 3y ago
But who exactly are these people living in transit starved outer boroughs that drive into Manhattan for work every day? Bearing in mind that these people will also need to pay for parking in the city. I don’t doubt that some exist but they have something of a mythical quality to them. Frequently invoked, rarely seen.

ng12 3y ago

> between Midtown and Brooklyn I don't follow. There are relatively few neighborhoods in Brooklyn without train access to Midtown (though those do tend to be the most car centric).

tombert 3y ago
I take the trains all the time in Brooklyn, and live here, but the person you're responding to isn't completely wrong; there's a fairly large patch of north Brooklyn/lower Queens that has pretty bad train coverage. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Official_New_York_City_Subway_Map_2013_vc.jpg/640px-Official_New_York_City_Subway_Map_2013_vc.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Of... Also, in Brooklyn, there's a lot of places that do have train coverage in the most technical sense, but that means they have exactly one line near them. This is fine, but it can be annoying if that line is your main mode of transport and it gets shut down for whatever reason. When I lived in Manhattan, even in the less-covered Washington Heights, it was comparatively easy to find another train nearby if the train I was planning to take was down. In Brooklyn, unless you're near the more metro-ey hubs, you might just be out of luck (or just take the bus).
- ng12 3y ago
  But I don't know what the comparison is. It's definitely not London and Copenhagen. It's pretty amazing that you can take a 30+ mile ride from one end of NYC to the other for less than $3.

tombert 3y ago

> The subways and buses are unreliable at best. Everyone complains about the subway, but as someone who lives in Brooklyn it's been generally good enough to get to work without too many headaches. I live in the Brownsville/Canarsie area, and I generally take the 3 into the city, and that generally just works, but I will admit that it kind of sucks that the 3 is the only train that's easily near me. It's not usually a problem on weekdays, but it's a very annoying problem on weekends when they have to do maintenance, meaning my only easy mode of transportation is either severely limited or non-existent. [1] Still, I really don't think it's as bad as people complain about. I've lived in NYC for nine years, and deep in Brooklyn for about 5.5, without a car, and it's been "generally ok". [1] It's not completely horrible, if I'm willing to walk a bit further (about a mile) I can get to an L train and if I am willing to walk a bit further than that I can get to an A.

squeaky-clean 3y ago
I've experienced 3 line shutdowns in the past 24 hours. F Q and 6. All while I was trying to ride them.
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  Lol I bet I was downvoted by people who don't even live in NYC. Pretend that public transport is a utopia. Ignore the places it exists and has issues.
busterarm 3y ago
When I was reverse commuting from Manhattan to Sunset Park the train would regularly shut down on the bridge and just sit there with the power off for 45 minutes or more. I regularly had 2-3hr commutes, usually 3-4 days in a row when it was bad. This was one of my main reasons for swearing off the subway before I left the city.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  When was this? And what do you define as regularly?

pgodzin 3y ago

The buses will be more reliable when they aren't stuck in traffic caused by congestion.

cute_boi 3y ago
Many roads buses have their own lanes...
- polygamous_bat 3y ago
  Except in lower Manhattan those bus lanes are taken over by clueless tourists or entitled folks driving around. Pretty much an everyday occasion near Union square.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    You're not even allowed to drive in bus lanes during the day and the ticket printers are AGGRESSIVE. Outside of daylight hours whether the bus even shows up or not when scheduled is practically a coin flip. Especially in Manhattan where practically every second or third scheduled bus seems to run (other than the bus lines on either side up and down Central Park).

galdosdi 3y ago

> Staten Island and downtown What a ridiculous statement? Forgot about the free ferry? Once you get to South Ferry you have a wealth of connections, the 123 (7th ave line), 456 (Lex ave line) and NQR (Broadway line).

rappatic 3y ago
The ferry is definitely a lot less convenient when you don't live North Shore or mid-island. That said I don't have any personal experience, I'm only speaking secondhand for Staten Island.
mike50 3y ago
The other suburban portions of the NYC metro have direct rail links to Manhattan not a stupid boat.
- marnett 3y ago
  Is there more context behind S.I’s lack of subway connections? It very well could be similar to Marin County, North of SF in the Bay Area - the community aggressively pushed back against a BART line going north on the Golden Gate Bridge to keep their community insular and disconnected from the urban riffraff.
  - rappatic 3y ago
    They’ve planned a connection before, but it’s now basically considered dead. The New York Times had a great article on it a few years ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/nyregion/staten-island-subway-dreams.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/nyregion/staten-island-su....

aqme28 3y ago

> Once those are fixed, I'd embrace congestion pricing. Isn't congestion pricing being used to finance the MTA? I don't understand your complaint here, it seems like they're doing exactly what you want.

caddemon 3y ago
I mean there will be a delay of many years before the fixes actually happen, if that's even what the financing would go towards.

afavour 3y ago

But who exactly are these people living in transit starved outer boroughs that drive into Manhattan for work every day? Bearing in mind that these people will also need to pay for parking in the city. I don’t doubt that some exist but they have something of a mythical quality to them. Frequently invoked, rarely seen.