5 ms·

I'm in 3rd year CS and I almost never go to office hours for my CS courses, because a lot of the time I don't have something specific to ask. I go to lecture,

I'm in 3rd year CS and I almost never go to office hours for my CS courses, because a lot of the time I don't have something specific to ask. I go to lecture, don't understand the material, and then review my notes & the slides at home, working through the examples until I understand them. If I get stuck on something, I typically just keep trying until I understand it, instead of stopping, remembering what I don't understand and asking it in office hours 2-3 days later, and then potentially getting stuck on something else later on in the proof/example. Typically what I lack is is a more general understanding of the entire proof/example/algorithm instead of small individual details, and I really need to sit down with it and go through it instead of another quick re-explanation by a TA where I have to say "yeah, makes sense" before I've had enough time to think about it.

VyseofArcadia 3y ago
> If I get stuck on something, I typically just keep trying until I understand it, instead of stopping, remembering what I don't understand and asking it in office hours 2-3 days later, and then potentially getting stuck on something else later on in the proof/example. Good! This is what you should be doing! Understanding comes from within, and teachers can only guide you to it. You are your own best teacher, and you will learn the material on a deeper level if you figure it out yourself. Sometimes you do need a little guidance, though, and that's ok. > Typically what I lack is is a more general understanding of the entire proof/example/algorithm instead of small individual details, and I really need to sit down with it and go through it instead of another quick re-explanation by a TA where I have to say "yeah, makes sense" before I've had enough time to think about it. First of all, get face time with the actual professor if you can, not the TA. TAs can be great, but they're likely someone with limited pedagogical experience. Second, you need to learn to ask questions to get to the heart of the matter. Don't walk in saying, "I don't understand this proof/example/algorithm". That gives them nothing to work with. All they can offer you in return is a quick explanation. Tell them what you just told us. "I feel like I've got a good handle on all the small details and steps in this proof/example/algorithm, but I'm having trouble understanding it as a whole." Maybe try, "can I see some more examples?" or "can I see a motivating example?" or even "what historical context led to the creation of this algorithm?" Context can be everything. It can be difficult to understand material when it's presented to you in its modern form, and you don't see how something so logical and perfect crystalized out of the aether. If you can see a couple of steps in its historical derivation it can make a lot more sense. Not saying this is the case for you, but I have also seen a lot of students who think they have a good handle on the small details, but it turns out they only understand gist of the details instead of the details of the details. Hell, I do that myself. If you go through every little detail and ask yourself "why?" or "where did that come from?" or "what could have motivated this?" you might discover you have more gaps in your knowledge than you realize. Best of luck with the rest of your program! Don't be too hard on your teachers. As I explained in another comment, I spent years really trying to improve as a teacher, but it is an extremely unrewarding experience for a variety of reasons. These people are not getting rewarded for any extra effort they put into helping students, and if they're doing it anyway they deserve kudos.
- musicale 3y ago
  > TAs can be great, but they're likely someone with limited pedagogical experience. Professors can be great, but they're likely to be experts and researchers who find the course material trivially easy – and have long forgotten what it was like to learn it for the first time as an absolute beginner.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    Well said. Empathy is not a prerequisite of being brilliant. Sometimes the two coexist, allowing an expert to communicate material to the mind of a beginner, and those are the amazing teachers.
ChainOfFools 3y ago
I recall that any problems that I had understanding _how_ to solve something, arose from not knowing _why_ it was being done in the first place. And as a result I had no entry point into the solution process. Once inside the process of finding a solution things tended to fall into place. But looking at a problem set and not being able to guess what the first step is, thats a sign that I have not developed a means to find my bearing or orientation in the overall problem space. what distinguishes the forgettable instructors that I have had, from the invaluable and irreplaceable ones? The ability to communicate why we are doing what we are doing as effectively if not more so, than how we go about doing it. This is the gift that someone like grant Sanderson has, so incredibly rare and strangely opaque to (or even dismissed by) the typical college level instructor of STEM material.
- eltonlin 3y ago
  >The ability to communicate WHY we are doing what we are doing I really resonate with what you said. The Why and the contextual motivation is what I'm always so starved for in classes that I don't understand.
godelski 3y ago
> because a lot of the time I don't have something specific to ask. That's okay. Most TAs/professors will still help. Unfortunately some are assholes and if you get those, sorry. But the best way to deal with this is by asking them how to get started with a problem. Or to also ask about problems you've already solved. Here's some templated questions, modify for your specifics I've been struggling solving this problem, can you help me get started? I tried {x,y,z} but that doesn't seem to work because {a,b,c}. I solved this problem, but it took me longer than I think it should have. Can we walk through it together so I can see how you would approach it? I'm having a hard time starting problems, not even knowing where to begin. Do you have any advice? Can we do more problems in class? I came from physics and am finishing up my PhD in CS, so the last one might not be as good except for stuff like algorithms. But one key piece of advice for the getting started problem is to do more problems. In physics, the first thing I'd always start with is a force diagram and writing down my knowns and unknowns. This way I could do a form of dimensional analysis and then I had to just figure out how to convert. I then took these skills to CS and found a similar avenue. Your professors saying to write pseudo code aren't just trying to get you to do more work. This is your map. I take this same approach when I program. I write mostly in python so this works real well. I use vim and so will have one pane open to my file and another to an ipython terminal. I can test my logic in the terminal and write code side by side. So I try to write something quick first (think "write drunk, edit sober"). Then I start writing my function and I start by writing a small description and the arguments. As I'm writing this, I find my mind often finds edge cases that I can account for. A few minutes of back and forth, and I got a pretty good function. Essentially, I am using documentation as a rubber ducky or the Feynman Method[0]. I also highly suggest working with other students. There's a lot of good reasons for this. They'll see things in a different way than you, and one of the most important tools you can build is getting these different viewpoints/perspectives. Another is you're growing your network. These are very important for jobs. And probably most importantly, you need friends and a social life. If you're kicking yourself when you're down too much, you're gonna be slower at solving problems. Sometimes the best thing to do is get up, take a walk, and come back (that's the hard part). Also, ask questions in class. Don't worry about what other students think. You're paying for the professor. In today's age you can probably find better lectures online. So get your money's worth and ask in class. Most professors actually will be happy because when lecturing we hate having just blank stares and silence. We all dread the "does this make sense?" question and the absolutely unconvincing murmur of "yeah". Make your time count. I know it can be hard to be engaged, but also asking questions will help with that. And absolutely do not be afraid to interrupt or ask them to slow down. You're paying way to much to just sit in an in-person YouTube lecture. [0] https://fs.blog/feynman-technique/ https://fs.blog/feynman-technique/
FezzikTheGiant 3y ago
This is how I approach things as well. I never got the appeal of office hours as TAs aren't going to be able to regurgitate lecture content for you, it only works if you have something extremely specific you need help with.

VyseofArcadia 3y ago

> If I get stuck on something, I typically just keep trying until I understand it, instead of stopping, remembering what I don't understand and asking it in office hours 2-3 days later, and then potentially getting stuck on something else later on in the proof/example. Good! This is what you should be doing! Understanding comes from within, and teachers can only guide you to it. You are your own best teacher, and you will learn the material on a deeper level if you figure it out yourself. Sometimes you do need a little guidance, though, and that's ok. > Typically what I lack is is a more general understanding of the entire proof/example/algorithm instead of small individual details, and I really need to sit down with it and go through it instead of another quick re-explanation by a TA where I have to say "yeah, makes sense" before I've had enough time to think about it. First of all, get face time with the actual professor if you can, not the TA. TAs can be great, but they're likely someone with limited pedagogical experience. Second, you need to learn to ask questions to get to the heart of the matter. Don't walk in saying, "I don't understand this proof/example/algorithm". That gives them nothing to work with. All they can offer you in return is a quick explanation. Tell them what you just told us. "I feel like I've got a good handle on all the small details and steps in this proof/example/algorithm, but I'm having trouble understanding it as a whole." Maybe try, "can I see some more examples?" or "can I see a motivating example?" or even "what historical context led to the creation of this algorithm?" Context can be everything. It can be difficult to understand material when it's presented to you in its modern form, and you don't see how something so logical and perfect crystalized out of the aether. If you can see a couple of steps in its historical derivation it can make a lot more sense. Not saying this is the case for you, but I have also seen a lot of students who think they have a good handle on the small details, but it turns out they only understand gist of the details instead of the details of the details. Hell, I do that myself. If you go through every little detail and ask yourself "why?" or "where did that come from?" or "what could have motivated this?" you might discover you have more gaps in your knowledge than you realize. Best of luck with the rest of your program! Don't be too hard on your teachers. As I explained in another comment, I spent years really trying to improve as a teacher, but it is an extremely unrewarding experience for a variety of reasons. These people are not getting rewarded for any extra effort they put into helping students, and if they're doing it anyway they deserve kudos.

musicale 3y ago
> TAs can be great, but they're likely someone with limited pedagogical experience. Professors can be great, but they're likely to be experts and researchers who find the course material trivially easy – and have long forgotten what it was like to learn it for the first time as an absolute beginner.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Well said. Empathy is not a prerequisite of being brilliant. Sometimes the two coexist, allowing an expert to communicate material to the mind of a beginner, and those are the amazing teachers.

ChainOfFools 3y ago

I recall that any problems that I had understanding _how_ to solve something, arose from not knowing _why_ it was being done in the first place. And as a result I had no entry point into the solution process. Once inside the process of finding a solution things tended to fall into place. But looking at a problem set and not being able to guess what the first step is, thats a sign that I have not developed a means to find my bearing or orientation in the overall problem space. what distinguishes the forgettable instructors that I have had, from the invaluable and irreplaceable ones? The ability to communicate why we are doing what we are doing as effectively if not more so, than how we go about doing it. This is the gift that someone like grant Sanderson has, so incredibly rare and strangely opaque to (or even dismissed by) the typical college level instructor of STEM material.

eltonlin 3y ago
>The ability to communicate WHY we are doing what we are doing I really resonate with what you said. The Why and the contextual motivation is what I'm always so starved for in classes that I don't understand.

godelski 3y ago

> because a lot of the time I don't have something specific to ask. That's okay. Most TAs/professors will still help. Unfortunately some are assholes and if you get those, sorry. But the best way to deal with this is by asking them how to get started with a problem. Or to also ask about problems you've already solved. Here's some templated questions, modify for your specifics I've been struggling solving this problem, can you help me get started? I tried {x,y,z} but that doesn't seem to work because {a,b,c}. I solved this problem, but it took me longer than I think it should have. Can we walk through it together so I can see how you would approach it? I'm having a hard time starting problems, not even knowing where to begin. Do you have any advice? Can we do more problems in class? I came from physics and am finishing up my PhD in CS, so the last one might not be as good except for stuff like algorithms. But one key piece of advice for the getting started problem is to do more problems. In physics, the first thing I'd always start with is a force diagram and writing down my knowns and unknowns. This way I could do a form of dimensional analysis and then I had to just figure out how to convert. I then took these skills to CS and found a similar avenue. Your professors saying to write pseudo code aren't just trying to get you to do more work. This is your map. I take this same approach when I program. I write mostly in python so this works real well. I use vim and so will have one pane open to my file and another to an ipython terminal. I can test my logic in the terminal and write code side by side. So I try to write something quick first (think "write drunk, edit sober"). Then I start writing my function and I start by writing a small description and the arguments. As I'm writing this, I find my mind often finds edge cases that I can account for. A few minutes of back and forth, and I got a pretty good function. Essentially, I am using documentation as a rubber ducky or the Feynman Method[0]. I also highly suggest working with other students. There's a lot of good reasons for this. They'll see things in a different way than you, and one of the most important tools you can build is getting these different viewpoints/perspectives. Another is you're growing your network. These are very important for jobs. And probably most importantly, you need friends and a social life. If you're kicking yourself when you're down too much, you're gonna be slower at solving problems. Sometimes the best thing to do is get up, take a walk, and come back (that's the hard part). Also, ask questions in class. Don't worry about what other students think. You're paying for the professor. In today's age you can probably find better lectures online. So get your money's worth and ask in class. Most professors actually will be happy because when lecturing we hate having just blank stares and silence. We all dread the "does this make sense?" question and the absolutely unconvincing murmur of "yeah". Make your time count. I know it can be hard to be engaged, but also asking questions will help with that. And absolutely do not be afraid to interrupt or ask them to slow down. You're paying way to much to just sit in an in-person YouTube lecture. [0] https://fs.blog/feynman-technique/ https://fs.blog/feynman-technique/

FezzikTheGiant 3y ago

This is how I approach things as well. I never got the appeal of office hours as TAs aren't going to be able to regurgitate lecture content for you, it only works if you have something extremely specific you need help with.