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'The family says Barnett's health declined because of the stresses of taking a stand against his longtime employer. "He was suffering from PTSD and anxiety att

'The family says Barnett's health declined because of the stresses of taking a stand against his longtime employer. "He was suffering from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of being subjected to the hostile work environment at Boeing," they said, "which we believe led to his death."' FROM: https://www.npr.org/2024/03/12/1238033573/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-dead https://www.npr.org/2024/03/12/1238033573/boeing-whistleblow... Can we stop trying to make this some conspiracy. The man shot himself with is own gun (making him an unfortunate statistic). What articles like this do are give an unlikely narrative that Boeing can weasel out of. They were shitty to him. The stress they caused drove the man to kill himself. Thats the story, dont buy this other sensational nonsense and give them a pass.

yetihehe 3y ago
> Thats the story, dont buy this other sensational nonsense and give them a pass. Give them a pass for driving a man to suicide?
- _heimdall 3y ago
  That's a really, really complex line to draw. Suicide is by definition a choice a person makes for themselves. How do we decide where responsibility transitions from running your company (very) poorly to directly causing someone to decide to take their own life? Could Boeing be held legally responsible in some way? Maybe so, and maybe they should be in most peoples' opinion, but it isn't as clear as assuming they must have been directly responsible for driving a man to suicide.
BowBun 3y ago
Besides on non-serious forums, I haven't seen people seriously propose this (this being anything nefarious like Boeing actually trying to take him out) with any evidence. The sentiment on HN from what I've seen is that we believe he killed himself due to the harassment and hostile work environment enabled and encouraged by Boeing leadership. They should be held responsible via existing laws around protecting whistleblowers.
- hosh 3y ago
  Emotionally, it seems hard for me to believe that the Boeing leadership would be part of something criminal. And yet, the timing is weird. This dude hasn’t been employed by Boeing for some years. He was part of a Netflix documentary made about it. I don’t think the public took him seriously until people died, and there were multiple safety incidents. It would be interesting to see what the police report about this was. How long has he owned that gun? From what angle the that bullet come from? Were there any drugs still in his system? Any witnesses at the time of the shooting? If it was suicide, surely there are evidence that it is suicide and other evidence disproving that he was murdered.
  - gorjusborg 3y ago
    You don't need to pull the trigger. You just do everything in your power to make their life unlivable. They take care of the rest. This is why whistleblower laws have to be strong and be enforced very swiftly.
    - hosh 3y ago
      While that can be true, there would still be evidence supporting that, besides making things unlivable. My questions still stands -- what were the circumstances around the gun shot? How long has he owned that gun? How exactly did it happen? Isn't it worth checking?
  - croes 3y ago
    >Boeing leadership would be part of something criminal They are definitely part of something criminal, not murder but the whole mess and the resulting deaths are a criminal act.
    - zardo 3y ago
      Maybe people manage to segment off what it means to be a defence contractor in their own heads. But I figure if you produce and sell the means of killing people, you would be fine with killing people.
tomthehero 3y ago
[flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  You can't post like this here and we ban accounts that do, so please don't do it again. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
sudden_dystopia 3y ago
You act like nobody has ever conspired to do anything immoral before, like it’s some completely outlandish thing. History is rife with conspiracy. Maybe this guy did kill himself, but your attitude is quite unserious and ignorant.
ctrl-j 3y ago
There's about two sentences in the article that say "it's suspicious, but nobody's going to look into it harder than they have." The rest of it goes over how he was justified in being a whistleblower. The article is fine IMO.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  The whole first half of the article is a veiled implication that he was killed. "he was upbeat about his testimony, feeling he was finally able to tell the story of his efforts to get the company to take safety more seriously" The police said it was “a self-inflicted wound.” (Are those quotes or air quotes? cause they feel like the latter). " No one can believe it." "A family friend told ABC News that he had told her, “I ain’t scared, but if anything happens to me, it’s not suicide.” " "The internet lit up. It was an “alleged suicide,” or “an apparent suicide.”" and then... "it's suspicious, but nobody's going to look into it harder than they have." At no point did the author of the article cover what the actual family said. That the man was ready to be a statistic from stress. Boeing was the source of that stress. By opening up the article leaning into the conspiracy theory side of things, it only serves to discredit the rest of the content. The narrative of "his doctor told him to quit the dam job or have a heart attack" ... "the situation gave him anxiety and PTSD" is another strike against Boeing in all this. He becomes a man pushed to, and over the brink by a corporate giant. Considering the circumstances that sounds awful and reasonable.
rib3ye 3y ago
The piece you linked shows many indications he was in great spirits and eager to testify, so I am not sure it supports your efforts to refute the conspiracy. Personally, I am more vulnerable to the conspiracy that the suicide was forced or staged after reading that article.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  Everyone is different but it's not uncommon for a person who commits suicide to appear to be happy and normal in advance of it. There's a variety of reasons for this such as they've made up their mind and are finally at peace, or that they cover it up because they don't want anyone to interfere, etc. Some people are manic and have super highs and crushing, sudden lows and they kill themselves when they crash. Not saying this is the case here, but him being in great spirits doesn't really contradict the action of killing yourself.
throwaway5752 3y ago
The article in question doesn't make this claim. > As suspicious as his death was, no one in a position of power is calling for an investigation. And they’re not likely to. But I do know this: everything John Barnett said about Boeing’s problems was true. Everything. If the company had been willing to listen to him, 346 airline passengers would still be alive. And maybe Barnett would be too. This article is about the cultural problem at Boeing, and only tangentially about John Barnett.
baq 3y ago
Is a three letter agency capable of doing this? Definitely yes. What’s the motive? Not sure. Maybe he really did it himself.
hanniabu 3y ago
What are you going to say next, that Daphne Galizia had a history of car problems before it exploded after releasing the Panama Papers? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb-kills-panama-papers-journalist https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb...
bzmrgonz 3y ago
you forgot they have contraption engineered specifically to make it look like suicide mate.. https://youtu.be/XbpKJIQXEuY?si=VktwKwo4MyPTqMxb https://youtu.be/XbpKJIQXEuY?si=VktwKwo4MyPTqMxb
yunwal 3y ago
Absolutely ridiculous to not be suspicious here. Yes, stressed people kill themselves often, but not during a deposition that could accomplish everything they’ve been working for and putting their job security on the line for over the past decade. That is not when people feel hopeless. There are plenty of recent examples of murders to cover up corporate crimes. This would not be particularly out of the ordinary. Unfortunately we’ll never know for sure because for some reason no one is going to do a serious investigation into his death.
- esoterica 3y ago
  There are zero recent examples of a large American company ordering a hit on someone. Be serious.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - yunwal 3y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood

yetihehe 3y ago

> Thats the story, dont buy this other sensational nonsense and give them a pass. Give them a pass for driving a man to suicide?

_heimdall 3y ago
That's a really, really complex line to draw. Suicide is by definition a choice a person makes for themselves. How do we decide where responsibility transitions from running your company (very) poorly to directly causing someone to decide to take their own life? Could Boeing be held legally responsible in some way? Maybe so, and maybe they should be in most peoples' opinion, but it isn't as clear as assuming they must have been directly responsible for driving a man to suicide.

BowBun 3y ago

Besides on non-serious forums, I haven't seen people seriously propose this (this being anything nefarious like Boeing actually trying to take him out) with any evidence. The sentiment on HN from what I've seen is that we believe he killed himself due to the harassment and hostile work environment enabled and encouraged by Boeing leadership. They should be held responsible via existing laws around protecting whistleblowers.

hosh 3y ago
Emotionally, it seems hard for me to believe that the Boeing leadership would be part of something criminal. And yet, the timing is weird. This dude hasn’t been employed by Boeing for some years. He was part of a Netflix documentary made about it. I don’t think the public took him seriously until people died, and there were multiple safety incidents. It would be interesting to see what the police report about this was. How long has he owned that gun? From what angle the that bullet come from? Were there any drugs still in his system? Any witnesses at the time of the shooting? If it was suicide, surely there are evidence that it is suicide and other evidence disproving that he was murdered.
- gorjusborg 3y ago
  You don't need to pull the trigger. You just do everything in your power to make their life unlivable. They take care of the rest. This is why whistleblower laws have to be strong and be enforced very swiftly.
  - hosh 3y ago
    While that can be true, there would still be evidence supporting that, besides making things unlivable. My questions still stands -- what were the circumstances around the gun shot? How long has he owned that gun? How exactly did it happen? Isn't it worth checking?
- croes 3y ago
  >Boeing leadership would be part of something criminal They are definitely part of something criminal, not murder but the whole mess and the resulting deaths are a criminal act.
  - zardo 3y ago
    Maybe people manage to segment off what it means to be a defence contractor in their own heads. But I figure if you produce and sell the means of killing people, you would be fine with killing people.

tomthehero 3y ago

[flagged]

dang 3y ago
You can't post like this here and we ban accounts that do, so please don't do it again. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

sudden_dystopia 3y ago

You act like nobody has ever conspired to do anything immoral before, like it’s some completely outlandish thing. History is rife with conspiracy. Maybe this guy did kill himself, but your attitude is quite unserious and ignorant.

ctrl-j 3y ago

There's about two sentences in the article that say "it's suspicious, but nobody's going to look into it harder than they have." The rest of it goes over how he was justified in being a whistleblower. The article is fine IMO.

zer00eyz 3y ago
The whole first half of the article is a veiled implication that he was killed. "he was upbeat about his testimony, feeling he was finally able to tell the story of his efforts to get the company to take safety more seriously" The police said it was “a self-inflicted wound.” (Are those quotes or air quotes? cause they feel like the latter). " No one can believe it." "A family friend told ABC News that he had told her, “I ain’t scared, but if anything happens to me, it’s not suicide.” " "The internet lit up. It was an “alleged suicide,” or “an apparent suicide.”" and then... "it's suspicious, but nobody's going to look into it harder than they have." At no point did the author of the article cover what the actual family said. That the man was ready to be a statistic from stress. Boeing was the source of that stress. By opening up the article leaning into the conspiracy theory side of things, it only serves to discredit the rest of the content. The narrative of "his doctor told him to quit the dam job or have a heart attack" ... "the situation gave him anxiety and PTSD" is another strike against Boeing in all this. He becomes a man pushed to, and over the brink by a corporate giant. Considering the circumstances that sounds awful and reasonable.

rib3ye 3y ago

The piece you linked shows many indications he was in great spirits and eager to testify, so I am not sure it supports your efforts to refute the conspiracy. Personally, I am more vulnerable to the conspiracy that the suicide was forced or staged after reading that article.

nemo44x 3y ago
Everyone is different but it's not uncommon for a person who commits suicide to appear to be happy and normal in advance of it. There's a variety of reasons for this such as they've made up their mind and are finally at peace, or that they cover it up because they don't want anyone to interfere, etc. Some people are manic and have super highs and crushing, sudden lows and they kill themselves when they crash. Not saying this is the case here, but him being in great spirits doesn't really contradict the action of killing yourself.

throwaway5752 3y ago

The article in question doesn't make this claim. > As suspicious as his death was, no one in a position of power is calling for an investigation. And they’re not likely to. But I do know this: everything John Barnett said about Boeing’s problems was true. Everything. If the company had been willing to listen to him, 346 airline passengers would still be alive. And maybe Barnett would be too. This article is about the cultural problem at Boeing, and only tangentially about John Barnett.

baq 3y ago

Is a three letter agency capable of doing this? Definitely yes. What’s the motive? Not sure. Maybe he really did it himself.

hanniabu 3y ago

What are you going to say next, that Daphne Galizia had a history of car problems before it exploded after releasing the Panama Papers? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb-kills-panama-papers-journalist https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb...

bzmrgonz 3y ago

you forgot they have contraption engineered specifically to make it look like suicide mate.. https://youtu.be/XbpKJIQXEuY?si=VktwKwo4MyPTqMxb https://youtu.be/XbpKJIQXEuY?si=VktwKwo4MyPTqMxb

yunwal 3y ago

Absolutely ridiculous to not be suspicious here. Yes, stressed people kill themselves often, but not during a deposition that could accomplish everything they’ve been working for and putting their job security on the line for over the past decade. That is not when people feel hopeless. There are plenty of recent examples of murders to cover up corporate crimes. This would not be particularly out of the ordinary. Unfortunately we’ll never know for sure because for some reason no one is going to do a serious investigation into his death.

esoterica 3y ago
There are zero recent examples of a large American company ordering a hit on someone. Be serious.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- yunwal 3y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood