7 ms·

The people didn't elect their government, the prisoners under Israeli military occupation since 2005 did.

by potatototoo99 3y ago

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
They were more free to vote in that election than they have been since...
hersko 3y ago
The people of Gaza were under Israeli occupation since 2005? Really?
- mtalantikite 3y ago
  Since 1967 [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > Since 1967 [1] > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip More nuance would be helpful. The third paragraph from the article you linked says: In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew its military forces from Gaza, dismantled its settlements, and implemented a temporary blockade of Gaza. The blockade became indefinite after the 2007 Hamas takeover, supported by Egypt through restrictions on its land border with Gaza.[14] Despite the Israeli disengagement, the United Nations (UN), the International Committee of the Red Cross, and many human-rights organizations continue to consider Gaza to be held under Israeli military occupation, due to what they consider Israel's effective military control over the territory; Israel disputes that it occupies the territory.[15][16][17] The current blockade by Israel and Egypt prevents people and goods from freely entering or leaving the territory, leading to Gaza often being called an "open-air prison."[18][19] The UN, as well as at least 19 human-rights organizations, have urged Israel to lift the blockade.[20] Israel has justified its blockade on the strip with wanting to stop flow of arms, but Palestinians and rights groups say it amounts to collective punishment and exacerbates dire living conditions.
    - mtalantikite 3y ago
      Absolutely, which is why I linked the entire thing. Thanks!
  - hersko 3y ago
    And what happened in 2005? > In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew its military forces from Gaza, dismantled its settlements, and implemented a temporary blockade of Gaza. The blockade became indefinite after the 2007 Hamas takeover, supported by Egypt through restrictions on its land border with Gaza. Also, I guess Egypt is also occupying Gaza according to you?
    - mtalantikite 3y ago
      Oh for sure, Egypt is not blameless here. Israel was of course involved in Rafah as well [1]. It doesn't matter if the prison guards are inside or just surrounding the prison, you're still in prison. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing
- addicted 3y ago
  Conveniently ignored is that it was under Egyptian “occupation” before that. And the only reason the “occupation” transferred to Israel is because Egypt lost a war it started.
andsoitis 3y ago
> The people didn't elect their government, the prisoners under Israeli military occupation since 2005 did. From https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-electio... In 2006, the Palestinian political entity operating in the West Bank and Gaza staged elections. Little did observers know that it would be the last vote allowed by the Palestinian Authority, led then, as it is now, by President Mahmoud Abbas. The vote took place in the aftermath of a turbulent series of events: the fiery years of the second intifada, the death of longtime Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, and the 2005 Israeli withdrawal of troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip. The election yielded a shock victory for Hamas, which won the most seats with some 44 percent of the vote.
- guappa 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > they didn't know what hamas would do in the future "Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct" - https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/# https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palesti... Further in the artcle: "Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was "correct" given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was "incorrect". The remainder were undecided or gave no answer."
    - guappa 3y ago
      Yeah when you kill civilians for decades you tend to not be beloved by the survivors of your victims. How does this change the fact that there hasn't been any election in almost 20 years?
      - hersko 3y ago

The people didn't elect their government, the prisoners under Israeli military occupation since 2005 did.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

They were more free to vote in that election than they have been since...

hersko 3y ago

The people of Gaza were under Israeli occupation since 2005? Really?

mtalantikite 3y ago
Since 1967 [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > Since 1967 [1] > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip More nuance would be helpful. The third paragraph from the article you linked says: In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew its military forces from Gaza, dismantled its settlements, and implemented a temporary blockade of Gaza. The blockade became indefinite after the 2007 Hamas takeover, supported by Egypt through restrictions on its land border with Gaza.[14] Despite the Israeli disengagement, the United Nations (UN), the International Committee of the Red Cross, and many human-rights organizations continue to consider Gaza to be held under Israeli military occupation, due to what they consider Israel's effective military control over the territory; Israel disputes that it occupies the territory.[15][16][17] The current blockade by Israel and Egypt prevents people and goods from freely entering or leaving the territory, leading to Gaza often being called an "open-air prison."[18][19] The UN, as well as at least 19 human-rights organizations, have urged Israel to lift the blockade.[20] Israel has justified its blockade on the strip with wanting to stop flow of arms, but Palestinians and rights groups say it amounts to collective punishment and exacerbates dire living conditions.
  - mtalantikite 3y ago
    Absolutely, which is why I linked the entire thing. Thanks!
- hersko 3y ago
  And what happened in 2005? > In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew its military forces from Gaza, dismantled its settlements, and implemented a temporary blockade of Gaza. The blockade became indefinite after the 2007 Hamas takeover, supported by Egypt through restrictions on its land border with Gaza. Also, I guess Egypt is also occupying Gaza according to you?
  - mtalantikite 3y ago
    Oh for sure, Egypt is not blameless here. Israel was of course involved in Rafah as well [1]. It doesn't matter if the prison guards are inside or just surrounding the prison, you're still in prison. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing
addicted 3y ago
Conveniently ignored is that it was under Egyptian “occupation” before that. And the only reason the “occupation” transferred to Israel is because Egypt lost a war it started.

andsoitis 3y ago

> The people didn't elect their government, the prisoners under Israeli military occupation since 2005 did. From https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-electio... In 2006, the Palestinian political entity operating in the West Bank and Gaza staged elections. Little did observers know that it would be the last vote allowed by the Palestinian Authority, led then, as it is now, by President Mahmoud Abbas. The vote took place in the aftermath of a turbulent series of events: the fiery years of the second intifada, the death of longtime Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, and the 2005 Israeli withdrawal of troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip. The election yielded a shock victory for Hamas, which won the most seats with some 44 percent of the vote.

guappa 3y ago
[flagged]
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > they didn't know what hamas would do in the future "Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct" - https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/# https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palesti... Further in the artcle: "Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was "correct" given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was "incorrect". The remainder were undecided or gave no answer."
  - guappa 3y ago
    Yeah when you kill civilians for decades you tend to not be beloved by the survivors of your victims. How does this change the fact that there hasn't been any election in almost 20 years?
    - hersko 3y ago