4 ms·

Why sleepwalking? Seems very awake and intentional.

hasty_pudding 3y ago
My thoughts exactly. What if the left has been destroying their country through unchecked spending and immigration and the right are the only people awake enough to see it?
- OtomotO 3y ago
  "What if the left has been destroying their country through unchecked spending and immigration and the right are the only people awake enough to see it?" We had no left government in ages ;) The ÖVP is moderate to right and is part of EVERY government since 1987 (!!!) Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ministers_of_finance_(Austria) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ministers_of_finance_(...
- Propelloni 3y ago
  But the left wasn't in power the last 7 years. The center-right and the Greens were and are in power. It requires some mental gymnastics to frame this coalition as left. But to be frank, I'm not following Austrian politics closely. If the FPÖ is anything like the German AfD they are actually a very pro free-market. anti-social and worker-hostile party. I don't know why struggling people would vote for them, but they do.
  - OtomotO 3y ago
    > I don't know why struggling people would vote for them, but they do. In stark contrast to many, I know a lot of people voting for the FPÖ, although all my close friends are far more left than right. I have family that votes for the FPÖ, I have acquaintances and I know them, because I talk to them, uncondescending and am very interested in their motives. And quite frankly: Most of the time it's simply not logical. I can point them to laws the FPÖ enacted (because, you know, stuff like that is public), laws that DIRECTLY hurt them and they still vote for them, because "the foreigners, they will take everything we have!" And even foreigners vote for them. People that are not Austrian citizens but already living in Austria feel like they belong here but now the gates should be closed. It all boils down to emotions and the good ol' divide et impera, which has worked for millenia all around the world. Some have their reasons, e.g. because they like what the FPÖ is doing at local levels.
AlexandrB 3y ago
I was about to post the same thing. The article strikes a very condescending tone towards Austrian voters - like they're idiots for voting this way. Meanwhile, as usual, it's the economy that has people upset: > Year-on-year inflation peaked at 11.2 percent in January 2023 and remains above the eurozone average. And natural gas prices increased by 103 percent in the first half of 2023 compared with the same period the year prior. These kinds of numbers have very real consequences for people living paycheck to paycheck.
- archagon 3y ago
  When has the far right actually solved any real problems instead of exacerbating them?
- akmarinov 3y ago
  Austria uses predominantly Russian natural gas via the Ukrainian pipeline. Sure, it sucks that prices are going up, but going against Ukraine and against Bulgaria - the two countries that can transit that Russian gas to them - isn't the smartest of decisions.
  - AniseAbyss 3y ago
    [dead]
- rob74 3y ago
  So then the alternative is to let Putin have his way with Ukraine, just so gas prices stay low? It's really interesting how similar the "political programmes" of far-right populists are across the globe, from FPÖ to Orbán to Trump: anti-immigration, vaccine skeptic, isolationist, against international treaties and organizations (EU, UN, NATO, ...), and (most interestingly) consistently pro-Putin. I wonder why...
  - 1337shadow 3y ago
    In EU, electricity price is indexed on gas price, and so, we the gas price is applied to cheap nuclear energy. Also, care do demonstrate how buying Russian oil to India saves Ukraine? Thanks.
foraway 3y ago
I think the idea is that only people who agree with the author are Austria.
lorddoig 3y ago
Because admitting that right/centre-right views are democratically popular would mean they'd actually have to grapple with the issues going on. It's cheaper and easier to make comparisons with the Nazis and play to the raw outrage of their readership than actually engage in real journalism.
- ch_sm 3y ago
  The comparisons with the Nazis - in the case of the FPÖ - are not exactly far-fetched. They have a history of engaging with Neo-Nazis.
  - Simulacra 3y ago
    The left has been calling everyone on the right racist and Nazis for so long that it's lost its punch. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a Nazi or racist.
    - airpoint 3y ago
      Sounds like you’ve no actual clue of the history of FPÖ.
  - lorddoig 3y ago
    That's as may be, but it's also a well-rehearsed cry of establishment media: - "Neo-Nazi accused a fan of Nigel Farage, trial told", BBC [0] - "Farage’s fascist past?", The Independent [1] - "Giorgia Meloni appoints minister once pictured wearing Nazi armband", The Guardian [2] - "Milei appoints former minister with pro-Nazi past as head of state lawyers", El Pais [3] The first isn't anything to do with Farage, really. The rest are childhood indiscretions and one case of a bad taste outfit worn on a stag party. Google any democratically elected leader from the right followed by "nazis" and you'll find articles like this. [0]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57258375 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57258375 [1]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-... [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/01/giorgia-meloni-galeazzo-bignami-nazi-swastika-armband https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/01/giorgia-meloni... [3]: https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-12-02/milei-appoints-former-minister-with-pro-nazi-past-as-head-of-state-lawyers.html https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-12-02/milei-ap...
agilob 3y ago
When people are leaning towards far-rights it's sleepwalking, when they are leaning towards far-left they are a progressive society.

My thoughts exactly. What if the left has been destroying their country through unchecked spending and immigration and the right are the only people awake enough to see it?

OtomotO 3y ago
"What if the left has been destroying their country through unchecked spending and immigration and the right are the only people awake enough to see it?" We had no left government in ages ;) The ÖVP is moderate to right and is part of EVERY government since 1987 (!!!) Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ministers_of_finance_(Austria) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ministers_of_finance_(...
Propelloni 3y ago
But the left wasn't in power the last 7 years. The center-right and the Greens were and are in power. It requires some mental gymnastics to frame this coalition as left. But to be frank, I'm not following Austrian politics closely. If the FPÖ is anything like the German AfD they are actually a very pro free-market. anti-social and worker-hostile party. I don't know why struggling people would vote for them, but they do.
- OtomotO 3y ago
  > I don't know why struggling people would vote for them, but they do. In stark contrast to many, I know a lot of people voting for the FPÖ, although all my close friends are far more left than right. I have family that votes for the FPÖ, I have acquaintances and I know them, because I talk to them, uncondescending and am very interested in their motives. And quite frankly: Most of the time it's simply not logical. I can point them to laws the FPÖ enacted (because, you know, stuff like that is public), laws that DIRECTLY hurt them and they still vote for them, because "the foreigners, they will take everything we have!" And even foreigners vote for them. People that are not Austrian citizens but already living in Austria feel like they belong here but now the gates should be closed. It all boils down to emotions and the good ol' divide et impera, which has worked for millenia all around the world. Some have their reasons, e.g. because they like what the FPÖ is doing at local levels.

AlexandrB 3y ago

I was about to post the same thing. The article strikes a very condescending tone towards Austrian voters - like they're idiots for voting this way. Meanwhile, as usual, it's the economy that has people upset: > Year-on-year inflation peaked at 11.2 percent in January 2023 and remains above the eurozone average. And natural gas prices increased by 103 percent in the first half of 2023 compared with the same period the year prior. These kinds of numbers have very real consequences for people living paycheck to paycheck.

archagon 3y ago
When has the far right actually solved any real problems instead of exacerbating them?
akmarinov 3y ago
Austria uses predominantly Russian natural gas via the Ukrainian pipeline. Sure, it sucks that prices are going up, but going against Ukraine and against Bulgaria - the two countries that can transit that Russian gas to them - isn't the smartest of decisions.
- AniseAbyss 3y ago
  [dead]
rob74 3y ago
So then the alternative is to let Putin have his way with Ukraine, just so gas prices stay low? It's really interesting how similar the "political programmes" of far-right populists are across the globe, from FPÖ to Orbán to Trump: anti-immigration, vaccine skeptic, isolationist, against international treaties and organizations (EU, UN, NATO, ...), and (most interestingly) consistently pro-Putin. I wonder why...
- 1337shadow 3y ago
  In EU, electricity price is indexed on gas price, and so, we the gas price is applied to cheap nuclear energy. Also, care do demonstrate how buying Russian oil to India saves Ukraine? Thanks.

foraway 3y ago

I think the idea is that only people who agree with the author are Austria.

lorddoig 3y ago

Because admitting that right/centre-right views are democratically popular would mean they'd actually have to grapple with the issues going on. It's cheaper and easier to make comparisons with the Nazis and play to the raw outrage of their readership than actually engage in real journalism.

ch_sm 3y ago
The comparisons with the Nazis - in the case of the FPÖ - are not exactly far-fetched. They have a history of engaging with Neo-Nazis.
- Simulacra 3y ago
  The left has been calling everyone on the right racist and Nazis for so long that it's lost its punch. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a Nazi or racist.
  - airpoint 3y ago
    Sounds like you’ve no actual clue of the history of FPÖ.
- lorddoig 3y ago
  That's as may be, but it's also a well-rehearsed cry of establishment media: - "Neo-Nazi accused a fan of Nigel Farage, trial told", BBC [0] - "Farage’s fascist past?", The Independent [1] - "Giorgia Meloni appoints minister once pictured wearing Nazi armband", The Guardian [2] - "Milei appoints former minister with pro-Nazi past as head of state lawyers", El Pais [3] The first isn't anything to do with Farage, really. The rest are childhood indiscretions and one case of a bad taste outfit worn on a stag party. Google any democratically elected leader from the right followed by "nazis" and you'll find articles like this. [0]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57258375 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57258375 [1]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-... [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/01/giorgia-meloni-galeazzo-bignami-nazi-swastika-armband https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/01/giorgia-meloni... [3]: https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-12-02/milei-appoints-former-minister-with-pro-nazi-past-as-head-of-state-lawyers.html https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-12-02/milei-ap...

agilob 3y ago

When people are leaning towards far-rights it's sleepwalking, when they are leaning towards far-left they are a progressive society.