4 ms·

If you are part of the military industrial complex or the neocon establishment clique then the last three decades (since the start of the unipolar moment) have

by ak_111 3y ago

If you are part of the military industrial complex or the neocon establishment clique then the last three decades (since the start of the unipolar moment) have been extremely enjoyable and decadent as you get a free pass to milk the American empire. You get lauded by the media as a hero for bombing arabs from the sky with zero possibility of defeat (and if the devastating horror inflected on the civilian population is revealed you get to throw the leakers in a dungeon - see Assange). All the while transferring a huge chunk of taxpayer money to your chums by giving them lucrative defence contract to wage these pointless wars that do nothing strategically but extend the US debt to astronomical levels (which the entire world must finance due to the dollar hegemony), then in turn your chums reward you with board positions and various other kickbacks (book deals and university, think tank and media jobs). You face zero possibility of being held accountable for your decisions because while politicians come and go your unelected position is secure and the population scarcely pays attention to foreign policy or public debt.

silent_cal 3y ago
I agree with you, but putting let's not pretend that neocons are the only ones looting the treasury. There's plenty of Democrats getting fat and happy too.
FredPret 3y ago
You hear stuff like this all the time. So when I first looked into Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrup-Grumman, L3Harris and others as an investor, I expected huge margins and booming profits. Instead I found they have steady earnings with between -5 and +10 % margin. Hardly Republic-eating stuff. I’m right there with you on public debt, although this is a problem throughout the rich world.
- CPLX 3y ago
  Why would they give the money to you as a retail investor? They keep it. There’s a group of like 2000 people or so and they all change jobs every couple years and split the profits and buy houses in Maclean. It’s distributed via consulting deals, retainer agreements, acquisitions, and so on.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    This is conspiratorial thinking which rarely coincides with clear thinking. You’re describing an incredibly dangerous and unstable game on their part. All it would take is one activist shareholder to blow that whole thing apart.
    - CPLX 3y ago
      I grew up in the DC suburbs. I literally know these people, played with their kids when I was a kid. Like I'm really sure. It's not super complicated. This is basically how the country is run and to some extent has always been run.
      - FredPret 3y ago
        Government contract fraud of this kind on the order of couple of million up to a couple of hundred million here and there is terrible and people should go to prison. It’s enough money to an enormous amount for an individual - ie, your DC friends could buy half a dozen really nice mansions or something. This is kind of corruption should never be tolerated, but neither should it be mythologized and feared.
        CPLX 3y ago
        What the hell are you talking about? Like you don't understand that if you're a senior executive at a massive defense contractor you can hire former generals who just signed off on your bid to lucrative consulting agreements, you can put politicians on your board of directors (ie Nikki Haley @ Boeing) and employ their children's PR firms and "strategy consultancies" and so on. It's not fraud in the legal sense, it's just disgusting and I agree it shouldn't happen. But it's all right out in the open and how the system works. I'm not really asking if you agree, I'm describing something I have seen first hand.
        FredPret 3y ago
        First of all calm down please. I’m trying to have a factual and calm conversation. Second of all OK nice and where is all that money going? Sure, generals as directors, politicians making killer stock investments. But I don’t see these trillions in the form of corporate profits, or missing tax money. The money is almost entirely accounted for (ie audited) and the numbers are reasonable. The US pissed away a ton of money in the middle east, but that money is hardly missing - we know where it went.
- ak_111 3y ago
  Profiteering from the military industrial complex is a much more subtle art than that. There are many sophisticated (and readable) studies about it which you can read. Sometimes it is not even that subtle. Just take a few minutes to read about Blackwater.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    There is profiteering, as with any large industry, especially government-backed ones with near-guaranteed payouts. But what’s the scale of it? Is it enough to bring down the whole US? My answer is not even close.
    - ak_111 3y ago
      See my other comment. There is no way to get a scale of it since it is not audited. All we see is the public debt ballooning while infrastructure around us is decaying. Where is the money going?
      - FredPret 3y ago
        But we can look at the audited public filings of the defense contractors. And their numbers are really kind of reasonable.
      - geeB 3y ago
        The deficit since October is roughly the same as all defense expenditures: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/natio... So even if they went to zero and didn’t have any effect on revenue, we’d still end up the year with debt ballooning. The lion share of expenditures are non-discretionary, and public debt increase is largely determined by demographics and interest rates.
      - KptMarchewa 3y ago
        > There is no way to get a scale of it since it is not audited. Pretty boring talking point, since it's mostly audited - the various secret programs are very small in comparison to public ones. > Where is the money going? Giant majority goes to various social and medical programs, that only baloon from aging of society and prolonged lifespans without extending workspan. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/2023_US_Federal_Budget_Infographic.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/2023_US_... So, in short - pensioners eat all the money.
- rqtwteye 3y ago
  Talk to people who work there a little higher up in the hierarchy. It’s a super sweet gig with very good money. And while making good money you can wrap yourself in patriotism.

by ak_111 3y ago

silent_cal 3y ago

I agree with you, but putting let's not pretend that neocons are the only ones looting the treasury. There's plenty of Democrats getting fat and happy too.

FredPret 3y ago

You hear stuff like this all the time. So when I first looked into Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrup-Grumman, L3Harris and others as an investor, I expected huge margins and booming profits. Instead I found they have steady earnings with between -5 and +10 % margin. Hardly Republic-eating stuff. I’m right there with you on public debt, although this is a problem throughout the rich world.

CPLX 3y ago
Why would they give the money to you as a retail investor? They keep it. There’s a group of like 2000 people or so and they all change jobs every couple years and split the profits and buy houses in Maclean. It’s distributed via consulting deals, retainer agreements, acquisitions, and so on.
- FredPret 3y ago
  This is conspiratorial thinking which rarely coincides with clear thinking. You’re describing an incredibly dangerous and unstable game on their part. All it would take is one activist shareholder to blow that whole thing apart.
  - CPLX 3y ago
    I grew up in the DC suburbs. I literally know these people, played with their kids when I was a kid. Like I'm really sure. It's not super complicated. This is basically how the country is run and to some extent has always been run.
    - FredPret 3y ago
      Government contract fraud of this kind on the order of couple of million up to a couple of hundred million here and there is terrible and people should go to prison. It’s enough money to an enormous amount for an individual - ie, your DC friends could buy half a dozen really nice mansions or something. This is kind of corruption should never be tolerated, but neither should it be mythologized and feared.
      - CPLX 3y ago
        What the hell are you talking about? Like you don't understand that if you're a senior executive at a massive defense contractor you can hire former generals who just signed off on your bid to lucrative consulting agreements, you can put politicians on your board of directors (ie Nikki Haley @ Boeing) and employ their children's PR firms and "strategy consultancies" and so on. It's not fraud in the legal sense, it's just disgusting and I agree it shouldn't happen. But it's all right out in the open and how the system works. I'm not really asking if you agree, I'm describing something I have seen first hand.
        FredPret 3y ago
        First of all calm down please. I’m trying to have a factual and calm conversation. Second of all OK nice and where is all that money going? Sure, generals as directors, politicians making killer stock investments. But I don’t see these trillions in the form of corporate profits, or missing tax money. The money is almost entirely accounted for (ie audited) and the numbers are reasonable. The US pissed away a ton of money in the middle east, but that money is hardly missing - we know where it went.
ak_111 3y ago
Profiteering from the military industrial complex is a much more subtle art than that. There are many sophisticated (and readable) studies about it which you can read. Sometimes it is not even that subtle. Just take a few minutes to read about Blackwater.
- FredPret 3y ago
  There is profiteering, as with any large industry, especially government-backed ones with near-guaranteed payouts. But what’s the scale of it? Is it enough to bring down the whole US? My answer is not even close.
  - ak_111 3y ago
    See my other comment. There is no way to get a scale of it since it is not audited. All we see is the public debt ballooning while infrastructure around us is decaying. Where is the money going?
    - FredPret 3y ago
      But we can look at the audited public filings of the defense contractors. And their numbers are really kind of reasonable.
    - geeB 3y ago
      The deficit since October is roughly the same as all defense expenditures: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/ https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/natio... So even if they went to zero and didn’t have any effect on revenue, we’d still end up the year with debt ballooning. The lion share of expenditures are non-discretionary, and public debt increase is largely determined by demographics and interest rates.
    - KptMarchewa 3y ago
      > There is no way to get a scale of it since it is not audited. Pretty boring talking point, since it's mostly audited - the various secret programs are very small in comparison to public ones. > Where is the money going? Giant majority goes to various social and medical programs, that only baloon from aging of society and prolonged lifespans without extending workspan. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/2023_US_Federal_Budget_Infographic.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/2023_US_... So, in short - pensioners eat all the money.
rqtwteye 3y ago
Talk to people who work there a little higher up in the hierarchy. It’s a super sweet gig with very good money. And while making good money you can wrap yourself in patriotism.