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Re: incentives being weird in higher education: we once overheard the director of the CS department respond to complaints about the program not being a good fit

by andai 3y ago

Re: incentives being weird in higher education: we once overheard the director of the CS department respond to complaints about the program not being a good fit for industry by saying, "our job is to create researchers." I recall something like 7% of students going on into research, meaning that they weren't even trying to meet the needs of 93% of their students.

humansareok1 3y ago
Then go study Software Engineering not Computer SCIENCE lol. Idk why this mind virus continues to eat people's brains. College isn't and never was meant to be a job training program. Some majors do more then others and if that's what you want select those majors it's pretty simple.
cess11 3y ago
Between the two sentences "good fit for industry" gets rephrased into "needs of 93% of their students". I think it would have been clearer to just stick with "good fit for industry".
sgu999 3y ago
What would be the percentage of researchers left if they weren't trying this hard to create them? With a good theoretical background in CS, most of what you need for the industry can be learned more easily throughout your career. That universities are not dedicated to teaching how to be an immediately productive economical actor makes sense. That's of course assuming you don't have to take on 300k of debt to get a degree...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Muller20 3y ago
You don't need a university degree if you just want to learn the last javascript frontend framework, a good coding bootcamp can teach you that. Inflation of credentials is not a problem that universities created, it is an industry issue.
touchngthevodka 3y ago
Since when did we start making the assumption that university is supposed to be vocational?
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  When they started teaching mechanical engineering, not just physics. And chemical engineering, not just chemistry. They need to start teaching software engineering, not just computer science. And 93% of their CS students need to switch.
dekleinewolf 3y ago
It's way easier to make a good programmer out of a researcher than a researcher out of a programmer. I have always had programming jobs (job title: software engineer) that required the 'researcher' mindset. We didn't mind teaching them our stack or even good coding practice, but if they didn't have the 'explorative/innovative mind' of a 'researcher', we could never train them up to the level they needed to be.
computerfriend 3y ago
What do you think the S in CS stands for?
Gooblebrai 3y ago
The issue is having made university the institution one has to go through to access employment. University was meant to be the destination of future scholars.

by andai 3y ago

humansareok1 3y ago

Then go study Software Engineering not Computer SCIENCE lol. Idk why this mind virus continues to eat people's brains. College isn't and never was meant to be a job training program. Some majors do more then others and if that's what you want select those majors it's pretty simple.

cess11 3y ago

Between the two sentences "good fit for industry" gets rephrased into "needs of 93% of their students". I think it would have been clearer to just stick with "good fit for industry".

sgu999 3y ago

What would be the percentage of researchers left if they weren't trying this hard to create them? With a good theoretical background in CS, most of what you need for the industry can be learned more easily throughout your career. That universities are not dedicated to teaching how to be an immediately productive economical actor makes sense. That's of course assuming you don't have to take on 300k of debt to get a degree...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Muller20 3y ago

You don't need a university degree if you just want to learn the last javascript frontend framework, a good coding bootcamp can teach you that. Inflation of credentials is not a problem that universities created, it is an industry issue.

touchngthevodka 3y ago

Since when did we start making the assumption that university is supposed to be vocational?

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
When they started teaching mechanical engineering, not just physics. And chemical engineering, not just chemistry. They need to start teaching software engineering, not just computer science. And 93% of their CS students need to switch.

dekleinewolf 3y ago

It's way easier to make a good programmer out of a researcher than a researcher out of a programmer. I have always had programming jobs (job title: software engineer) that required the 'researcher' mindset. We didn't mind teaching them our stack or even good coding practice, but if they didn't have the 'explorative/innovative mind' of a 'researcher', we could never train them up to the level they needed to be.

computerfriend 3y ago

What do you think the S in CS stands for?

Gooblebrai 3y ago

The issue is having made university the institution one has to go through to access employment. University was meant to be the destination of future scholars.