6 ms·

Sutter is not a monopoly, especially in the Sacramento area. In Sacramento there's Kaiser, Dignity, Sutter and UCD, plus numerous smaller office chains such as

by Alupis 3y ago

Sutter is not a monopoly, especially in the Sacramento area. In Sacramento there's Kaiser, Dignity, Sutter and UCD, plus numerous smaller office chains such as Hill Physicians, etc. What you likely meant is your employer's health plan is only Sutter... which is entirely a different thing. > I got a free ambulance to their ER where two nurses and a doctor immediately stitched me up for less than 40 EUR and was given world class care With most health insurance plans, everything you described would cost you only a co-pay as well (usually $20-40). Uninsured people are the ones stuck with $10k ambulance ride bills... after all, someone has to pay for the services.

wkat4242 3y ago
Even with the government funded healthcare here in Spain people don't spend thousands a month in taxes. In fact very few people pay that much anyway. I'm genuinely shocked how much health insurance costs in the US. I'm glad we just cover this through the state here. It works fine and I never have to pull out my wallet.
- Alupis 3y ago
  Majority of people in the US don't pay thousands a month in healthcare/insurance either. Really premium, high-end health insurance plans can exceed $1K monthly for families, yes, but regular plans don't. In addition, for employer-based health insurance, the individual often pays only a small portion of the total monthly premium (1/3 is common, but varies). > I'm glad we just cover this through the state here. You mean you cover this through your taxes. The state does not just literally or figuratively print money to pay for health care. In the US, over 40% of the population pays $0 income taxes, yet still has access to government provided healthcare via Medicaid. In fact, when you combine Medicaid and Medicare, the US has the largest national healthcare system in the world - in terms of dollars spent and people covered.
  - smokey_the_bear 3y ago
    I have the cheapest kaiser plan available, with a 10k deductible. It is 1900/month for my family.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    > Majority of people in the US don't pay thousands a month in healthcare/insurance either. Really premium, high-end health insurance plans can exceed $1K monthly for families, yes, but regular plans don't. In addition, for employer-based health insurance, the individual often pays only a small portion of the total monthly premium (1/3 is common, but varies). yeah but I really really don't want to be dependent on my employer for health insurance. This means I'm pretty much blackmailed into staying there until I have something else lined up. And when I get fired it compounds the problems hugely. > You mean you cover this through your taxes. The state does not just literally or figuratively print money to pay for health care. In the US, over 40% of the population pays $0 income taxes, yet still has access to government provided healthcare via Medicaid. I know, it's my taxes. But that's fine. It's worth paying taxes for cheap healthcare for everyone. I want poor people to be healthy too. The good thing about it is that nobody has to worry about crazy bills. We spread the cost over everyone and that's great. There's no deductibles either. And we don't pay a fortune in taxes. Also, the way the health system operates keeps it cheaper. The hospitals work together and they purchase together in bulk. General Practitioners have central offices in every neighbourhood with all standard treatment rooms so they are assigned one every day. They don't need to buy their own practice. They don't need to worry about running a business, doing accounting, finding suppliers. It was especially ideal during covid when some of these centers were specifically assigned for covid patients and others for other things, reducing cross-contamination. > In fact, when you combine Medicaid and Medicare, the US has the largest national healthcare system in the world - in terms of dollars spent and people covered. But yet people can still be bankrupted if they get sick. This is the one thing that's avoided here.
  - dappermanneke 3y ago
    yeah the crazy costs will certainly make the US healthcare system look large if you measure largeness by how crazy the costs are
diogenescynic 3y ago
No, they’re effectively a monopoly for most of the services people actually need. It’s well researched and documented. Google it. They even settled an anti-trust lawsuit with the state a few years back. https://www.capradio.org/articles/2019/12/20/sutter-health-settles-575-million-california-antitrust-suit-agrees-to-change-practices/ https://www.capradio.org/articles/2019/12/20/sutter-health-s... https://amp.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/article75348642.html https://amp.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/articl... https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/sacramento/california-sues-hospital-giant-sutter-health-where-study-found-prices-25-higher/103-533651925 https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/sacramento/californ... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/health/sutter-hospitals-medical-bills.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/health/sutter-hospitals-m... https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-sutter-health-prices-20180515-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-sutter-health-prices-... https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/california-sutter-health-hospital-chain-high-prices-lawsuit-60-minutes-2020-12-13/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/california-sutter-health-ho... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5FFIkdVzq4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5FFIkdVzq4 It’s a racket. They’re just ripping people off. Sutter is the sole reason healthcare in Sacramento costs more than in LA-and for worse quality care. They’re a grift. > With most health insurance plans, everything you described would cost you only a co-pay as well (usually $20-40). Uninsured people are the ones stuck with $10k ambulance ride bills... after all, someone has to pay for the services. You’re either uninformed, lying, or both. Have you ever called an ambulance in California? It’s $2000 minimum even with insurance. This is with an Anthem Blue Cross PPO from a tech company. I’ve had to use an ambulance twice in the last decade and it was considerably more than $20-$40… you were only off by a factor of 50x or 100x.
- Alupis 3y ago
  Not one of your links provides any evidence of Sutter being anything close to a monopoly. They do not own the market in California or Sacramento, and the are many other major healthcare providers here including Kaiser. "Anti-Trust" actions cover a wide variety of anti competitive behaviors. Additionally, you are misleading people on the cost of an ambulance ride by conflating out-of-network prices and/or medically unnecessary rides. "Balance Billing" for out of network ambulance rides is now illegal, and uninsured people are capped at billings equal to Medi-Cal.
FireBeyond 3y ago
What? My "premium" healthcare plan, whose premiums are in the four digit a month tier (to your sister comment's point, although to my good fortune, my employer covers 100%)... the ER copay is $250. Then you will be paying for labs, DI, and medications beyond that. In fact, as someone who has worked as a paramedic for 12 years, and worked in health insurance software for a similar period, I have -never- seen an ER stay that you'll get only a co-pay of $20 for.
- CobaltFire 3y ago
  To back this up: I'm retired military, with a health insurance plan that most people would kill for. It may be the best you can get in the country, seeing as I pay no premiums. My ER copay is $75 or $136, depending on my plan (HMO or Self Managed; both have the same $4200 max out of pocket per year). [0]: https://www.tricare.mil/comparecosts https://www.tricare.mil/comparecosts
dragonwriter 3y ago
> With most health insurance plans, everything you described would cost you only a co-pay as well (usually $20-40). No, that would only be true of most HMO plans, but most plans aren’t HMOs.

by Alupis 3y ago

wkat4242 3y ago

Even with the government funded healthcare here in Spain people don't spend thousands a month in taxes. In fact very few people pay that much anyway. I'm genuinely shocked how much health insurance costs in the US. I'm glad we just cover this through the state here. It works fine and I never have to pull out my wallet.

Alupis 3y ago
Majority of people in the US don't pay thousands a month in healthcare/insurance either. Really premium, high-end health insurance plans can exceed $1K monthly for families, yes, but regular plans don't. In addition, for employer-based health insurance, the individual often pays only a small portion of the total monthly premium (1/3 is common, but varies). > I'm glad we just cover this through the state here. You mean you cover this through your taxes. The state does not just literally or figuratively print money to pay for health care. In the US, over 40% of the population pays $0 income taxes, yet still has access to government provided healthcare via Medicaid. In fact, when you combine Medicaid and Medicare, the US has the largest national healthcare system in the world - in terms of dollars spent and people covered.
- smokey_the_bear 3y ago
  I have the cheapest kaiser plan available, with a 10k deductible. It is 1900/month for my family.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > Majority of people in the US don't pay thousands a month in healthcare/insurance either. Really premium, high-end health insurance plans can exceed $1K monthly for families, yes, but regular plans don't. In addition, for employer-based health insurance, the individual often pays only a small portion of the total monthly premium (1/3 is common, but varies). yeah but I really really don't want to be dependent on my employer for health insurance. This means I'm pretty much blackmailed into staying there until I have something else lined up. And when I get fired it compounds the problems hugely. > You mean you cover this through your taxes. The state does not just literally or figuratively print money to pay for health care. In the US, over 40% of the population pays $0 income taxes, yet still has access to government provided healthcare via Medicaid. I know, it's my taxes. But that's fine. It's worth paying taxes for cheap healthcare for everyone. I want poor people to be healthy too. The good thing about it is that nobody has to worry about crazy bills. We spread the cost over everyone and that's great. There's no deductibles either. And we don't pay a fortune in taxes. Also, the way the health system operates keeps it cheaper. The hospitals work together and they purchase together in bulk. General Practitioners have central offices in every neighbourhood with all standard treatment rooms so they are assigned one every day. They don't need to buy their own practice. They don't need to worry about running a business, doing accounting, finding suppliers. It was especially ideal during covid when some of these centers were specifically assigned for covid patients and others for other things, reducing cross-contamination. > In fact, when you combine Medicaid and Medicare, the US has the largest national healthcare system in the world - in terms of dollars spent and people covered. But yet people can still be bankrupted if they get sick. This is the one thing that's avoided here.
- dappermanneke 3y ago
  yeah the crazy costs will certainly make the US healthcare system look large if you measure largeness by how crazy the costs are

diogenescynic 3y ago

No, they’re effectively a monopoly for most of the services people actually need. It’s well researched and documented. Google it. They even settled an anti-trust lawsuit with the state a few years back. https://www.capradio.org/articles/2019/12/20/sutter-health-settles-575-million-california-antitrust-suit-agrees-to-change-practices/ https://www.capradio.org/articles/2019/12/20/sutter-health-s... https://amp.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/article75348642.html https://amp.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/articl... https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/sacramento/california-sues-hospital-giant-sutter-health-where-study-found-prices-25-higher/103-533651925 https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/sacramento/californ... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/health/sutter-hospitals-medical-bills.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/health/sutter-hospitals-m... https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-sutter-health-prices-20180515-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-sutter-health-prices-... https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/california-sutter-health-hospital-chain-high-prices-lawsuit-60-minutes-2020-12-13/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/california-sutter-health-ho... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5FFIkdVzq4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5FFIkdVzq4 It’s a racket. They’re just ripping people off. Sutter is the sole reason healthcare in Sacramento costs more than in LA-and for worse quality care. They’re a grift. > With most health insurance plans, everything you described would cost you only a co-pay as well (usually $20-40). Uninsured people are the ones stuck with $10k ambulance ride bills... after all, someone has to pay for the services. You’re either uninformed, lying, or both. Have you ever called an ambulance in California? It’s $2000 minimum even with insurance. This is with an Anthem Blue Cross PPO from a tech company. I’ve had to use an ambulance twice in the last decade and it was considerably more than $20-$40… you were only off by a factor of 50x or 100x.

Alupis 3y ago
Not one of your links provides any evidence of Sutter being anything close to a monopoly. They do not own the market in California or Sacramento, and the are many other major healthcare providers here including Kaiser. "Anti-Trust" actions cover a wide variety of anti competitive behaviors. Additionally, you are misleading people on the cost of an ambulance ride by conflating out-of-network prices and/or medically unnecessary rides. "Balance Billing" for out of network ambulance rides is now illegal, and uninsured people are capped at billings equal to Medi-Cal.

FireBeyond 3y ago

What? My "premium" healthcare plan, whose premiums are in the four digit a month tier (to your sister comment's point, although to my good fortune, my employer covers 100%)... the ER copay is $250. Then you will be paying for labs, DI, and medications beyond that. In fact, as someone who has worked as a paramedic for 12 years, and worked in health insurance software for a similar period, I have -never- seen an ER stay that you'll get only a co-pay of $20 for.

CobaltFire 3y ago
To back this up: I'm retired military, with a health insurance plan that most people would kill for. It may be the best you can get in the country, seeing as I pay no premiums. My ER copay is $75 or $136, depending on my plan (HMO or Self Managed; both have the same $4200 max out of pocket per year). [0]: https://www.tricare.mil/comparecosts https://www.tricare.mil/comparecosts

dragonwriter 3y ago

> With most health insurance plans, everything you described would cost you only a co-pay as well (usually $20-40). No, that would only be true of most HMO plans, but most plans aren’t HMOs.