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For people doomed to this fate like myself, please try cycling. My mom has had numerous knee surgeries due to lack of proper exercise and being overweight. My k

For people doomed to this fate like myself, please try cycling. My mom has had numerous knee surgeries due to lack of proper exercise and being overweight. My knee issues started at 15, so presumably it’s genetic. When I started cycling regularly at 24 the problems receded almost entirely. I doubt this will completely prevent the need for surgery later in life, but I’m glad I’m doing what I can.

neilc 3y ago
Cycling is good. I've also found boswellia and curcumin supplements to be surprisingly effective for the arthritis symptoms.
NegativeLatency 3y ago
Swimming is good too, even more gentle
- kazinator 3y ago
  Doing nothing is even more gentle; that's not exactly the idea.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    “Low-impact”
    - kazinator 3y ago
      The idea that swimming is better than cycling because it has even less impact is simply invalid. The low impact of cycling is more than low enough.¹ (Outside of falling down and hitting the pavement, of course!) I would say that if all you do is cycling, you should add some more load-bearing exercise, like weights, and a bit of running. You should not be worried that cycling is too high impact and go for swimming for that reason (though there are great reasons to swim, and nobody should be discouraged from that!) ＿＿＿＿ 1. Except for someone with a serious injury that they are treating with pool exercise, or a member of some other special population.
  - viciousvoxel 3y ago
    You're being obtuse. Parent clearly meant gentle as in "lower impact", which really is the idea. Swimming is a great exercise option for joint health (and in general).
    - kazinator 3y ago
      Nope; you need load bearing. And even some mild impact. Lower impact being better than high impact doesn't imply that even lower impact is even better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone#Remodeling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone#Remodeling "Repeated stress, such as weight-bearing exercise or bone healing, results in the bone thickening at the points of maximum stress (Wolff's law). It has been hypothesized that this is a result of bone's piezoelectric properties, which cause bone to generate small electrical potentials under stress." Swimming is beneficial, and is a great complement to load-bearing exercise.
      - dredmorbius 3y ago
        This is a much better response than your upstream contribution.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Swimming may or may not be appropriate. Swimming, generally, is pretty poor lower-body exercise. Most swimmers have very well-developed upper-body strength, though favouring back and torso generally. Legs get comparatively little workout, though for competitive swimmers starts (diving off the blocks) and turns (kicking off the wall) are periodic explosive strength. Swimming can and does lead to joint problems in many cases, notably shoulders (for most strokes) and knees (breastroke or "frog" kick). The human anatomy isn't really designed for dragging itself through water, and repetitive stress injuries can emerge. The leverage effect of even a small effort exerted at the hand or foot transferred to the elbow/knee or shoulder/hip can be stunningly large. There is the option of "aquasize" or "water walking", which can be useful as rehabilitative exercise or for the morbidly obese. This is water-assisted movement, though, not swimming per se. Mind: so long as you're mindful of limitations, and swimming is both convenient and useful, it's a great exercise and a useful training tool, or goal. But it's possible to hurt yourself in all kinds of ways. A useful rule of thumb is that mild soreness in muscle after exercise is generally OK. Pain in joints or connective tissue is not, and is a strong signal to back off, with total rest for days or weeks often required. (Source: long-time competitive and recreational swimmer, some-time fitness fanatic.)
  - zimpenfish 3y ago
    > knees (breastroke or "frog" kick) Anecdata: My knee consultant specifically banned the breaststroke kick if I go swimming (but then my knee is a disaster area and pending a replacement.)
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      I know quite a few competitive breaststrokers who developed knee problems in their later teens, so, yeah. Flutter or dolphin kick, with or without fins ("Zoomers" are particularly useful) should be safer, and actually is a reasonably good lower-body workout, particularly in conjunction with strength training (squats & deads notably).
- yolo3000 3y ago
  From what I read cycling is better, at least for cartilage, check out the video of this doctor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNBjKJ9hxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNBjKJ9hxQ. He also talks in other videos about the force you get on the knee from a push motion, versus a kick motion, with the kick motion exerting more force.
forgotmyinfo 3y ago
My mom is also overweight and having the resultant joint issues because of it now that it's been decades. I feel bad, because it just results in pain, which makes her move less, and it just becomes a vicious cycle. Some things provide temporary relief, like steroid injections, but the core issue is still there. Never stop moving, if you can help it! Mobility is so important.
stavros 3y ago
I was asking a friend about this just yesterday. My left knee is starting to hurt, including while walking. I use the bicycle as my main mode of transportation, and I was wondering if it's good for the knee or bad for it.
- toss1 3y ago
  The general assumption is that bicycling is good for it; it has negligible impact, and the motion will keep muscles and tendons flexible and increased blood flow is good for healing. Particularly use lower gears and 'spin' faster, so your pedaling rate is 80-90 RPM (i.e., don't be pushing hard on the pedals at low RPMs). This is both most efficient and keeps joint loads lower. Please note the "assumption". Be sure to ask your doctor about your specific condition, as no one here including me, has any idea what is your actual condition and what the effects would be. Hope your knee gets better soon!
  - teaearlgraycold 3y ago
    A lot of what I do is low RPM high torque climbing. That’s the kind of exercise that builds strength in the gym (fewer reps at higher weight) so I expect it builds my lower body strength better than spinning.
    - toss1 3y ago
      Sure, if you're doing that for a particular reason such as you mention, great. Beginner cyclists also tend to pedal with a much slower cadence. But it is definitely not the fast way around the track or down the road. For almost everyone, the 80-90 or 75-95 RPM cadence is most efficient. Slower will exhaust the muscles sooner, and faster (except for sprints) will squander energy on ineffective motion (as in force that doesn't get to the wheel). Also, unless you are doing such low-RPM/Hi-torque levels that you literally fail in 6-20 strokes, you are doing closer to a bodybuilders' bulk-up routine. Going to failure in few sets builds peak strength. Doing more sets doesn't build peak strength, but does build more bulk; the levels of low-rpm pressure and "reps" of pedal strokes done in cycling for tens of minutes are definitely in the high-rep/low weight gym regimes. To really augment your strength, better off doing weight workouts with leg press, knee extension, knee contraction/curls, and squats. It definitely helps cycling performance.
swader999 3y ago
Backward sled pull or just pushing a treadmill in reverse with the power off, ten minutes, 3x a week. Check out knees over toes guy on YouTube. Former world cup mogul skier and treeplanter of a decade with the toll of all that.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Also, touchdown squats. These and backwards sled push totally and quickly fixed fairly significant knee pain I was experiencing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6c9ELsquY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6c9ELsquY
nextos 3y ago
What about rowing using a C2 ergometer or similar?
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Should be good, so long as there are no obvious signs of injury or pain in the involved joints (ankle, knee, hip).
SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
Interesting, I bike regularly and feel it has exacerbated issues with my leg tendons in general, around my knee, causing pain!
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  Try getting a bike fit (or just watch some videos to learn how to fit yourself). If it’s bad enough it might only be addressable with physical therapy.
ahains31 3y ago
Just here to remind people - biking with your seat too low is quite hard on knees. Folks typically recommend raising the seat until your leg/knees are almost straight at their furthest extension, but not quite.
- karlshea 3y ago
  Hard seconding this, it’s so important. It’s really easy to get the seat height vaguely correct, there are a ton of YouTube videos explaining how to do it.
  - euroderf 3y ago
    That's what I detest about Youtube. Murphy's Law says I'll manage to pick the videos that are wrong.
    - sentientslug 3y ago
      The way to combat this is watch like 5 and follow the wisdom of the crowd.
- aussieguy1234 3y ago
  Be particularly careful here if you are tall and if that's the case, get the right bike for your height.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  I got a professional bike fit. Definitely worth it if you ride a lot.
- mattclarkdotnet 3y ago
  Specifically, with your shoes on, seated without dipping either hip, your leg should be slightly bent when your heel is on the pedal and the pedal is at the lowest point. Yes, all of that detail matters! A full bike fit is best but the above will be a good start.
okdood64 3y ago
How much and often did you cycle?

neilc 3y ago

Cycling is good. I've also found boswellia and curcumin supplements to be surprisingly effective for the arthritis symptoms.

NegativeLatency 3y ago

Swimming is good too, even more gentle

kazinator 3y ago
Doing nothing is even more gentle; that's not exactly the idea.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  “Low-impact”
  - kazinator 3y ago
    The idea that swimming is better than cycling because it has even less impact is simply invalid. The low impact of cycling is more than low enough.¹ (Outside of falling down and hitting the pavement, of course!) I would say that if all you do is cycling, you should add some more load-bearing exercise, like weights, and a bit of running. You should not be worried that cycling is too high impact and go for swimming for that reason (though there are great reasons to swim, and nobody should be discouraged from that!) ＿＿＿＿ 1. Except for someone with a serious injury that they are treating with pool exercise, or a member of some other special population.
- viciousvoxel 3y ago
  You're being obtuse. Parent clearly meant gentle as in "lower impact", which really is the idea. Swimming is a great exercise option for joint health (and in general).
  - kazinator 3y ago
    Nope; you need load bearing. And even some mild impact. Lower impact being better than high impact doesn't imply that even lower impact is even better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone#Remodeling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone#Remodeling "Repeated stress, such as weight-bearing exercise or bone healing, results in the bone thickening at the points of maximum stress (Wolff's law). It has been hypothesized that this is a result of bone's piezoelectric properties, which cause bone to generate small electrical potentials under stress." Swimming is beneficial, and is a great complement to load-bearing exercise.
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      This is a much better response than your upstream contribution.
dredmorbius 3y ago
Swimming may or may not be appropriate. Swimming, generally, is pretty poor lower-body exercise. Most swimmers have very well-developed upper-body strength, though favouring back and torso generally. Legs get comparatively little workout, though for competitive swimmers starts (diving off the blocks) and turns (kicking off the wall) are periodic explosive strength. Swimming can and does lead to joint problems in many cases, notably shoulders (for most strokes) and knees (breastroke or "frog" kick). The human anatomy isn't really designed for dragging itself through water, and repetitive stress injuries can emerge. The leverage effect of even a small effort exerted at the hand or foot transferred to the elbow/knee or shoulder/hip can be stunningly large. There is the option of "aquasize" or "water walking", which can be useful as rehabilitative exercise or for the morbidly obese. This is water-assisted movement, though, not swimming per se. Mind: so long as you're mindful of limitations, and swimming is both convenient and useful, it's a great exercise and a useful training tool, or goal. But it's possible to hurt yourself in all kinds of ways. A useful rule of thumb is that mild soreness in muscle after exercise is generally OK. Pain in joints or connective tissue is not, and is a strong signal to back off, with total rest for days or weeks often required. (Source: long-time competitive and recreational swimmer, some-time fitness fanatic.)
- zimpenfish 3y ago
  > knees (breastroke or "frog" kick) Anecdata: My knee consultant specifically banned the breaststroke kick if I go swimming (but then my knee is a disaster area and pending a replacement.)
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    I know quite a few competitive breaststrokers who developed knee problems in their later teens, so, yeah. Flutter or dolphin kick, with or without fins ("Zoomers" are particularly useful) should be safer, and actually is a reasonably good lower-body workout, particularly in conjunction with strength training (squats & deads notably).
yolo3000 3y ago
From what I read cycling is better, at least for cartilage, check out the video of this doctor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNBjKJ9hxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNBjKJ9hxQ. He also talks in other videos about the force you get on the knee from a push motion, versus a kick motion, with the kick motion exerting more force.

forgotmyinfo 3y ago

My mom is also overweight and having the resultant joint issues because of it now that it's been decades. I feel bad, because it just results in pain, which makes her move less, and it just becomes a vicious cycle. Some things provide temporary relief, like steroid injections, but the core issue is still there. Never stop moving, if you can help it! Mobility is so important.

stavros 3y ago

I was asking a friend about this just yesterday. My left knee is starting to hurt, including while walking. I use the bicycle as my main mode of transportation, and I was wondering if it's good for the knee or bad for it.

toss1 3y ago
The general assumption is that bicycling is good for it; it has negligible impact, and the motion will keep muscles and tendons flexible and increased blood flow is good for healing. Particularly use lower gears and 'spin' faster, so your pedaling rate is 80-90 RPM (i.e., don't be pushing hard on the pedals at low RPMs). This is both most efficient and keeps joint loads lower. Please note the "assumption". Be sure to ask your doctor about your specific condition, as no one here including me, has any idea what is your actual condition and what the effects would be. Hope your knee gets better soon!
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  A lot of what I do is low RPM high torque climbing. That’s the kind of exercise that builds strength in the gym (fewer reps at higher weight) so I expect it builds my lower body strength better than spinning.
  - toss1 3y ago
    Sure, if you're doing that for a particular reason such as you mention, great. Beginner cyclists also tend to pedal with a much slower cadence. But it is definitely not the fast way around the track or down the road. For almost everyone, the 80-90 or 75-95 RPM cadence is most efficient. Slower will exhaust the muscles sooner, and faster (except for sprints) will squander energy on ineffective motion (as in force that doesn't get to the wheel). Also, unless you are doing such low-RPM/Hi-torque levels that you literally fail in 6-20 strokes, you are doing closer to a bodybuilders' bulk-up routine. Going to failure in few sets builds peak strength. Doing more sets doesn't build peak strength, but does build more bulk; the levels of low-rpm pressure and "reps" of pedal strokes done in cycling for tens of minutes are definitely in the high-rep/low weight gym regimes. To really augment your strength, better off doing weight workouts with leg press, knee extension, knee contraction/curls, and squats. It definitely helps cycling performance.

swader999 3y ago

Backward sled pull or just pushing a treadmill in reverse with the power off, ten minutes, 3x a week. Check out knees over toes guy on YouTube. Former world cup mogul skier and treeplanter of a decade with the toll of all that.

SoftTalker 3y ago
Also, touchdown squats. These and backwards sled push totally and quickly fixed fairly significant knee pain I was experiencing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6c9ELsquY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6c9ELsquY

nextos 3y ago

What about rowing using a C2 ergometer or similar?

dredmorbius 3y ago
Should be good, so long as there are no obvious signs of injury or pain in the involved joints (ankle, knee, hip).

SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago

Interesting, I bike regularly and feel it has exacerbated issues with my leg tendons in general, around my knee, causing pain!

teaearlgraycold 3y ago
Try getting a bike fit (or just watch some videos to learn how to fit yourself). If it’s bad enough it might only be addressable with physical therapy.

ahains31 3y ago

Just here to remind people - biking with your seat too low is quite hard on knees. Folks typically recommend raising the seat until your leg/knees are almost straight at their furthest extension, but not quite.

karlshea 3y ago
Hard seconding this, it’s so important. It’s really easy to get the seat height vaguely correct, there are a ton of YouTube videos explaining how to do it.
- euroderf 3y ago
  That's what I detest about Youtube. Murphy's Law says I'll manage to pick the videos that are wrong.
  - sentientslug 3y ago
    The way to combat this is watch like 5 and follow the wisdom of the crowd.
aussieguy1234 3y ago
Be particularly careful here if you are tall and if that's the case, get the right bike for your height.
teaearlgraycold 3y ago
I got a professional bike fit. Definitely worth it if you ride a lot.
mattclarkdotnet 3y ago
Specifically, with your shoes on, seated without dipping either hip, your leg should be slightly bent when your heel is on the pedal and the pedal is at the lowest point. Yes, all of that detail matters! A full bike fit is best but the above will be a good start.

okdood64 3y ago

How much and often did you cycle?