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You are totally right housing prices have skyrocketed relative to wages, but you cant just tell kids they are doomed. There have always been good times and hard

You are totally right housing prices have skyrocketed relative to wages, but you cant just tell kids they are doomed. There have always been good times and hard times and there are always people who succeed or fail regardless.

smileysteve 3y ago
> but you cant just tell kids they are doomed But you can expose them to broader view points; Why is owning a house a goal, or dilemma that would lead to depression? This is perhaps the "American" part; how many countries is home and automobile ownership a top coming of age marker? Environmental disasters are going to happen (especially in top article of Florida) how can a kid take part through volunteering or voting for non disaster policies? Economic disaster ^^ see above ^^ but yes, America has not grasped with demographic shift with baby boomer retirements; and a future lack of workers; this is where parents can teach children self sufficiency.
- boredpeter 3y ago
  Owning a home is a goal because the alternative is lifetime wage slavery to fund a landlord’s lavish lifestyle. People don’t want to be exploited and see home ownership as a way to get out of that cycle of exploitation and building enough wealth to someday retire.
  - robocat 3y ago
    Paying mortgage interest is even worse slavery in my limited experience. A mortgage really ties you down. > building enough wealth Our current environment looks like that if you are older. Thinking of your house as savings is weird: personally I think you need a house and retirement savings - and safe retirement savings is an oxymoron because it depends on the demographics and economy. I'm not sure that younger people can rely on the idea that their house will be worth enough because it depends on population demographics - housing is a Ponzi scheme where the older population sells there home to younger people until at some point the youngest person risks being left with something worthless: Japan and Italy have houses for ¥0 or €1 due to aging population. https://edition.cnn.com/travel/patrica-italy-town-one-euro-homes-struggle/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/patrica-italy-town-one-euro-h...
- neuralRiot 3y ago
  The background problem of all this is what have been ingrained in our culture that money = success = happiness. Is not that they will or will not own a house, a car or a yatch, is the sense that they will never be able to be happy if they don’t get any of those. How many people follow careers that they are not interested in the least but they have “growth potential” or are a “path to success”. Now on top of that they see in social media people who “have everything” and are living the life and smiling 24/7 and they don’t understand that everything is just a show, books, radio, movies, tv, youtube it’s all the same, reality is on this side of the screen not in that.
kelseyfrog 3y ago
I'm not sure if you intended it or not, but it reads like a justification of the Nobel Lie[1]. I don't think the truth can be contained once it's out. Truth, of course, wins out in the end. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie
squigz 3y ago
> but you cant just tell kids they are doomed Lying to them when they can see the evidence to the contrary is better?
- ericmcer 3y ago
  I approach life thinking that I should do the best for myself and my family regardless of what broad societal problems are. I want to raise my kids to be the same way. There is no way I am going to raise them thinking they should just quit. It isn't a lie, I don't know what the future will be but I know there will be people who thrive and people who wither.
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    I’m trying to imagine, as someone that was an adult for the 2008 crash, saying “the economy will always be good for people that work hard and smart” out loud with a straight face. It would have to be either a) a complete fabrication or b) a little play on words where “working smart and hard” is the load-bearing bit of phrasing that implies that any negative impacts from economic downturn would strictly reflect on a person’s work ethic and/or intelligence. “Don’t worry about the future, your net worth will reflect your personal worth regardless of external economic conditions!” sounds way more depressing than “the economic hardships you were born during and have seen in your short lifetime are not likely to evaporate by the time you enter the workforce”
    - squigz 3y ago
      Relevant to b) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy
  - squigz 3y ago
    > There is no way I am going to raise them thinking they should just quit. I'm not sure it's a choice between telling them they're doomed and should quit, and misleading them (if not lying), is it?
- 3y ago
wvenable 3y ago
> There have always been good times and hard times and there are always people who succeed or fail regardless. That is a weird statement. What does it mean when times are good or bad then? If times are bad, and it feels like they are, then less people are going to succeed. I'm not sure pretending that problems don't exist improves your odds of being in the succeed category.
- floxy 3y ago
  “I returned to civilization shortly after that and went to Cornell to teach, and my first impression was a very strange one. I can't understand it any more, but I felt very strongly then. I sat in a restaurant in New York, for example, and I looked out at the buildings and I began to think, you know, about how much the radius of the Hiroshima bomb damage was and so forth... How far from here was 34th street?... All those buildings, all smashed — and so on. And I would go along and I would see people building a bridge, or they'd be making a new road, and I thought, they're crazy, they just don't understand, they don't understand. Why are they making new things? It's so useless. But, fortunately, it's been useless for almost forty years now, hasn't it? So I've been wrong about it being useless making bridges and I'm glad those other people had the sense to go ahead.” ― Richard Feynman

smileysteve 3y ago

> but you cant just tell kids they are doomed But you can expose them to broader view points; Why is owning a house a goal, or dilemma that would lead to depression? This is perhaps the "American" part; how many countries is home and automobile ownership a top coming of age marker? Environmental disasters are going to happen (especially in top article of Florida) how can a kid take part through volunteering or voting for non disaster policies? Economic disaster ^^ see above ^^ but yes, America has not grasped with demographic shift with baby boomer retirements; and a future lack of workers; this is where parents can teach children self sufficiency.

boredpeter 3y ago
Owning a home is a goal because the alternative is lifetime wage slavery to fund a landlord’s lavish lifestyle. People don’t want to be exploited and see home ownership as a way to get out of that cycle of exploitation and building enough wealth to someday retire.
- robocat 3y ago
  Paying mortgage interest is even worse slavery in my limited experience. A mortgage really ties you down. > building enough wealth Our current environment looks like that if you are older. Thinking of your house as savings is weird: personally I think you need a house and retirement savings - and safe retirement savings is an oxymoron because it depends on the demographics and economy. I'm not sure that younger people can rely on the idea that their house will be worth enough because it depends on population demographics - housing is a Ponzi scheme where the older population sells there home to younger people until at some point the youngest person risks being left with something worthless: Japan and Italy have houses for ¥0 or €1 due to aging population. https://edition.cnn.com/travel/patrica-italy-town-one-euro-homes-struggle/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/patrica-italy-town-one-euro-h...
neuralRiot 3y ago
The background problem of all this is what have been ingrained in our culture that money = success = happiness. Is not that they will or will not own a house, a car or a yatch, is the sense that they will never be able to be happy if they don’t get any of those. How many people follow careers that they are not interested in the least but they have “growth potential” or are a “path to success”. Now on top of that they see in social media people who “have everything” and are living the life and smiling 24/7 and they don’t understand that everything is just a show, books, radio, movies, tv, youtube it’s all the same, reality is on this side of the screen not in that.

kelseyfrog 3y ago

I'm not sure if you intended it or not, but it reads like a justification of the Nobel Lie[1]. I don't think the truth can be contained once it's out. Truth, of course, wins out in the end. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie

squigz 3y ago

> but you cant just tell kids they are doomed Lying to them when they can see the evidence to the contrary is better?

ericmcer 3y ago
I approach life thinking that I should do the best for myself and my family regardless of what broad societal problems are. I want to raise my kids to be the same way. There is no way I am going to raise them thinking they should just quit. It isn't a lie, I don't know what the future will be but I know there will be people who thrive and people who wither.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  I’m trying to imagine, as someone that was an adult for the 2008 crash, saying “the economy will always be good for people that work hard and smart” out loud with a straight face. It would have to be either a) a complete fabrication or b) a little play on words where “working smart and hard” is the load-bearing bit of phrasing that implies that any negative impacts from economic downturn would strictly reflect on a person’s work ethic and/or intelligence. “Don’t worry about the future, your net worth will reflect your personal worth regardless of external economic conditions!” sounds way more depressing than “the economic hardships you were born during and have seen in your short lifetime are not likely to evaporate by the time you enter the workforce”
  - squigz 3y ago
    Relevant to b) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy
- squigz 3y ago
  > There is no way I am going to raise them thinking they should just quit. I'm not sure it's a choice between telling them they're doomed and should quit, and misleading them (if not lying), is it?
3y ago

wvenable 3y ago

> There have always been good times and hard times and there are always people who succeed or fail regardless. That is a weird statement. What does it mean when times are good or bad then? If times are bad, and it feels like they are, then less people are going to succeed. I'm not sure pretending that problems don't exist improves your odds of being in the succeed category.

floxy 3y ago
“I returned to civilization shortly after that and went to Cornell to teach, and my first impression was a very strange one. I can't understand it any more, but I felt very strongly then. I sat in a restaurant in New York, for example, and I looked out at the buildings and I began to think, you know, about how much the radius of the Hiroshima bomb damage was and so forth... How far from here was 34th street?... All those buildings, all smashed — and so on. And I would go along and I would see people building a bridge, or they'd be making a new road, and I thought, they're crazy, they just don't understand, they don't understand. Why are they making new things? It's so useless. But, fortunately, it's been useless for almost forty years now, hasn't it? So I've been wrong about it being useless making bridges and I'm glad those other people had the sense to go ahead.” ― Richard Feynman