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I look at my local Catholic parish, and one thing that really helps keep it alive, is the parish school. A lot of parents who don't really believe in it all wil

I look at my local Catholic parish, and one thing that really helps keep it alive, is the parish school. A lot of parents who don't really believe in it all will still take their kids to be baptised so they can get into the school (and then for the other sacraments to get into the local Catholic high schools). And, once you have a large number of people with that connection, a few of them may decide to take it deeper. One dad I know from the school is officially converting (from some kind of Protestant) this Easter Sunday, he told me "my wife and kids are Catholic, I might as well be too". It surely helps that here in Australia, private schools receive extensive government funding, roughly on par with what public schools get, which assists the Catholic Church in running lots of (relatively low fee) private schools. In effect similar to the idea of "school vouchers" in the US, although not actually implemented that way. I note Methodists don't have as strong a tradition of running their own schools as Catholics do. In Australia, if you go back to some point in the 19th century, there were no public schools, only private religious ones, Methodist included (although Church of England was most common). Then, the Protestant churches made deals with the colonial governments, the colonial governments would take over most of their private religious schools and turn them into public ones, the churches would keep only their most prestigious schools (aimed at the upper classes)–the Catholic Church refused to take part, and then spent decades agitating for its schools to be publicly funded ("why do Catholics pay taxes to educate Protestant children but not their own?"), until finally in the 1960s the federal government agreed to fund them (in part because it really needed the Catholic vote, in part because the bishops threatened to close all their private schools, which would have completely overwhelmed the public system)

bombcar 3y ago
The USA has something similar, though the schools aren't subsidized (much, there's some in some places, but it's relatively minor) by the state or feds. They are subsidized by the diocese, the "Annual Catholic Appeal" is mostly taken from parishes and sent to the parishes with schools. The schools close usually from lack of kids not lack of funds.
- skissane 3y ago
  > The schools close usually from lack of kids not lack of funds. Australia has much more of a private schooling culture than the US. About 36% of Australian children go to private schools, compared to only about 9% in the US. And slightly over 50% of Australia's private schools are Catholic. So Catholic schools closing from "lack of kids", I wouldn't say it never happens in Australia, but certainly a lot less common than in the US. Decline in Catholic religious affiliation doesn’t necessarily lead to school closure, because many Australian Catholic schools enrol large numbers of non-Catholics I suspect funding is a big part of this-if the US introduced widespread school vouchers, the private percentage would likely creep up. But Australia has had publicly funded private schools for over 50 years now, so even with school vouchers, it could take decades for private schooling in the US to reach Australian percentages
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Vouchers would certainly raise the percentage in the US, but it would take quite a long time to get to 36% or even 18% - that's a lot of schools that would have to be reopened or rebuilt, and teachers found or trained. The lack of kids is often because the school is in an older part of town, which has become "newly wed or nearly dead" and they don't have enough people willing to drive long distances to use the school. Others are rural in areas that are just depopulated now.
    - skissane 3y ago
      > The lack of kids is often because the school is in an older part of town This happens less in Australia, because Australia has rather different population dynamics from the US. Significant population decline in inland rural areas, especially in smaller towns, which leads to school closures (for public schools too)–something also happening in some parts of the US But, the problem the US has with decaying urban areas (e.g. Detroit) just doesn't happen in contemporary Australia. Most of the population lives in a handful of big metro areas, which just keep on booming, due to runaway property prices, and absorbing a constant stream of immigrants (on a per capita basis, Australia's official immigration rate is almost twice that of the US.) Also, local government is a lot weaker, urban planning is controlled by the state governments, and they just won't let that kind of urban blight happen on their watch
geonaut 3y ago
As an atheist parent being forced consider Catholic faith schools out of sheer necessity, this is far from a help. This is geographical blackmail. I have seen teaching material, and it is subtly biased towards Catholicism. Spending valuable contact hours on Religious Education is a waste of time. I will respect my child’s choice if they find religion as an adolescent/adult, but I do not respect an organisation that depends on indoctrinating 5 year olds and filter-feeding on the local inhabitants.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  Is this satire?
- skissane 3y ago
  If it is any consolation, as someone from a Catholic family and who spent 11 out of 13 years of K-12 schooling at Catholic schools, mainstream Catholic schools do an utterly woeful job at indoctrination. Your average Catholic school is more likely to turn your kid into an atheist/agnostic than into a convinced Catholic. The really conservative ones, like Opus Dei or SSPX schools, arguably do a much better job of indoctrinating their pupils (although even for them, there are plenty for whom it doesn’t stick)-but I assume they are not on your menu. Even if you were willing to consider them, they probably wouldn’t be willing to consider you.
- LtWorf 3y ago
  I went to a catholic school (in a place where public ones are readily available, but my parents thought the education there was better), and while they did talk religion, except for the religion class (which i'd have had in public school as well) I don't think it was very faith oriented. Notably they had evolution, big bang, sex ed and so on. I think anglosaxon world religious schools are much different, and I have the impression that people in USA collate creationism and catholicity, while it's a strongly held belief in their country, across all faiths. I'm an atheist now, so I don't think the indoctrination was so good.
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    > I have the impression that people in USA collate creationism and catholicity I've noticed this as well. It's kinda weird, since the Catholic Church has officially held that it has no conflict with respect to evolution for around 75 years now (they basically take no position on the subject), and some of their scholars were pro-evolution for many years before that. Nowadays, it's generally just fundamentalist Protestant churches which insist on literal creationism. > while it's a strongly held belief in their country, across all faiths. It's actually a minority belief in the United States, although a substantial minority. https://news.gallup.com/poll/261680/americans-believe-creationism.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/261680/americans-believe-creati...

bombcar 3y ago

The USA has something similar, though the schools aren't subsidized (much, there's some in some places, but it's relatively minor) by the state or feds. They are subsidized by the diocese, the "Annual Catholic Appeal" is mostly taken from parishes and sent to the parishes with schools. The schools close usually from lack of kids not lack of funds.

skissane 3y ago
> The schools close usually from lack of kids not lack of funds. Australia has much more of a private schooling culture than the US. About 36% of Australian children go to private schools, compared to only about 9% in the US. And slightly over 50% of Australia's private schools are Catholic. So Catholic schools closing from "lack of kids", I wouldn't say it never happens in Australia, but certainly a lot less common than in the US. Decline in Catholic religious affiliation doesn’t necessarily lead to school closure, because many Australian Catholic schools enrol large numbers of non-Catholics I suspect funding is a big part of this-if the US introduced widespread school vouchers, the private percentage would likely creep up. But Australia has had publicly funded private schools for over 50 years now, so even with school vouchers, it could take decades for private schooling in the US to reach Australian percentages
- bombcar 3y ago
  Vouchers would certainly raise the percentage in the US, but it would take quite a long time to get to 36% or even 18% - that's a lot of schools that would have to be reopened or rebuilt, and teachers found or trained. The lack of kids is often because the school is in an older part of town, which has become "newly wed or nearly dead" and they don't have enough people willing to drive long distances to use the school. Others are rural in areas that are just depopulated now.
  - skissane 3y ago
    > The lack of kids is often because the school is in an older part of town This happens less in Australia, because Australia has rather different population dynamics from the US. Significant population decline in inland rural areas, especially in smaller towns, which leads to school closures (for public schools too)–something also happening in some parts of the US But, the problem the US has with decaying urban areas (e.g. Detroit) just doesn't happen in contemporary Australia. Most of the population lives in a handful of big metro areas, which just keep on booming, due to runaway property prices, and absorbing a constant stream of immigrants (on a per capita basis, Australia's official immigration rate is almost twice that of the US.) Also, local government is a lot weaker, urban planning is controlled by the state governments, and they just won't let that kind of urban blight happen on their watch

geonaut 3y ago

As an atheist parent being forced consider Catholic faith schools out of sheer necessity, this is far from a help. This is geographical blackmail. I have seen teaching material, and it is subtly biased towards Catholicism. Spending valuable contact hours on Religious Education is a waste of time. I will respect my child’s choice if they find religion as an adolescent/adult, but I do not respect an organisation that depends on indoctrinating 5 year olds and filter-feeding on the local inhabitants.

2devnull 3y ago
Is this satire?
skissane 3y ago
If it is any consolation, as someone from a Catholic family and who spent 11 out of 13 years of K-12 schooling at Catholic schools, mainstream Catholic schools do an utterly woeful job at indoctrination. Your average Catholic school is more likely to turn your kid into an atheist/agnostic than into a convinced Catholic. The really conservative ones, like Opus Dei or SSPX schools, arguably do a much better job of indoctrinating their pupils (although even for them, there are plenty for whom it doesn’t stick)-but I assume they are not on your menu. Even if you were willing to consider them, they probably wouldn’t be willing to consider you.
LtWorf 3y ago
I went to a catholic school (in a place where public ones are readily available, but my parents thought the education there was better), and while they did talk religion, except for the religion class (which i'd have had in public school as well) I don't think it was very faith oriented. Notably they had evolution, big bang, sex ed and so on. I think anglosaxon world religious schools are much different, and I have the impression that people in USA collate creationism and catholicity, while it's a strongly held belief in their country, across all faiths. I'm an atheist now, so I don't think the indoctrination was so good.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  > I have the impression that people in USA collate creationism and catholicity I've noticed this as well. It's kinda weird, since the Catholic Church has officially held that it has no conflict with respect to evolution for around 75 years now (they basically take no position on the subject), and some of their scholars were pro-evolution for many years before that. Nowadays, it's generally just fundamentalist Protestant churches which insist on literal creationism. > while it's a strongly held belief in their country, across all faiths. It's actually a minority belief in the United States, although a substantial minority. https://news.gallup.com/poll/261680/americans-believe-creationism.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/261680/americans-believe-creati...