5 ms·

> she will be able to buy a house if she wants one, the economy will always be good for people who are work smart and hard, etc. Yeah, I don't think that's tru

> she will be able to buy a house if she wants one, the economy will always be good for people who are work smart and hard, etc. Yeah, I don't think that's true at all. Its just anecdata, but I have several friends in their 30s for which that's just not the case. They're smart and work (harder than I do, just not in tech), but the price of a down payment on a home is going up faster than they're able to save, and they already live relatively frugally. We live in a major metro area, not a particularly expensive one, but the same is true for most of my cousins in the same age range spread across the country. I feel like my age group (mid 40s) is the last one that could afford home ownership, and me only because I got lucky by working in tech. Other people I know that are better educated and work harder than me are just shut out of the housing market, without some kind of windfall.

floxy 3y ago
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=conventional+97+mortgage&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=conventional+97+mortgage&ia...
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  Is it easy to find one that doesn't require private mortgage insurance? I remember that being a sticking point when I looked into this in the past few years. The problem I see with requiring such insurance is that I'd already be paying whatever interest rate on a higher loan amount for the same 15- or 30-year period and it's rather insulting when a high credit score isn't a signal that the loan is low risk. How many years of literally 0 late bill payments do I need before I can reasonably expect a bank to assume that I won't miss the payments that I sign up for? (Undefined, unless one has the 20% up front, then 0.) It's a bit of a joke. Anyway, I guess that got a bit rant-y; just saying that this feels more like exploitation by banks than banks offering a reasonable option. It lowers one's purchasing power unless one is able to save for a down payment.
  - floxy 3y ago
    I didn't know I was supposed to be insulted by PMI, so I just paid it.
  - Zpalmtree 3y ago
    Why should the lender take on more risk because you don't like it?
ericmcer 3y ago
You are totally right housing prices have skyrocketed relative to wages, but you cant just tell kids they are doomed. There have always been good times and hard times and there are always people who succeed or fail regardless.
- smileysteve 3y ago
  > but you cant just tell kids they are doomed But you can expose them to broader view points; Why is owning a house a goal, or dilemma that would lead to depression? This is perhaps the "American" part; how many countries is home and automobile ownership a top coming of age marker? Environmental disasters are going to happen (especially in top article of Florida) how can a kid take part through volunteering or voting for non disaster policies? Economic disaster ^^ see above ^^ but yes, America has not grasped with demographic shift with baby boomer retirements; and a future lack of workers; this is where parents can teach children self sufficiency.
  - boredpeter 3y ago
    Owning a home is a goal because the alternative is lifetime wage slavery to fund a landlord’s lavish lifestyle. People don’t want to be exploited and see home ownership as a way to get out of that cycle of exploitation and building enough wealth to someday retire.
    - robocat 3y ago
      Paying mortgage interest is even worse slavery in my limited experience. A mortgage really ties you down. > building enough wealth Our current environment looks like that if you are older. Thinking of your house as savings is weird: personally I think you need a house and retirement savings - and safe retirement savings is an oxymoron because it depends on the demographics and economy. I'm not sure that younger people can rely on the idea that their house will be worth enough because it depends on population demographics - housing is a Ponzi scheme where the older population sells there home to younger people until at some point the youngest person risks being left with something worthless: Japan and Italy have houses for ¥0 or €1 due to aging population. https://edition.cnn.com/travel/patrica-italy-town-one-euro-homes-struggle/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/patrica-italy-town-one-euro-h...
RegBarclay 3y ago
I'll add my own anecdata here. My older kids are in their late 20s and one has bought a home and the other is buying a new build home this year. My youngest is 18, the greatest consumer of social media of my 4 children, and she's convinced she won't be able to buy a home like her under-30 siblings are doing right now. Sounds very much like a YMMV situation, but it feels like social media has influenced my youngest to believe otherwise.
- floxy 3y ago
  If someone is convinced that all housing is going to stay/become extravagantly expensive, shouldn't they get into real estate development to cash in on the opportunity? So they can build houses/condos/etc. Seems like they could become architects, or real estate agents, or work for (or own) a construction company. Maybe designing robots that build houses. Or work for a REIT.
  - hnfong 3y ago
    There’s a difference between being the owner of a construction business and being an employee. The business owner assumes the risks and upside if real estate is to become expensive, but the employees are mostly affected by supply and demand of other workers - I.e. even if there is high demand of workers in the real estate sector, if there’s a high supply of workers to satisfy the demand, there won’t be a big increase in salary for them. That said, it does seem people generally are implicitly bullish on housing prices becoming more expensive over time. That’s how to interpret the fact that the first significant investment of many people's savings is a house. If people held the contrary opinion (that real estate in general are going to deprecate in value) then the idea of buying a house may not be so ubiquitous .
  - silverquiet 3y ago
    I notice a distinct lack of jobs like plumber or carpenter in that list. In some sense my parents are home builders (I'd say it's like a hobby for them), so I have some familiarity with the process. I even fill in some of the labor on occasion. It really doesn't require a lot of administrative work (though they avoid building in places with lots of codes at this point), but a ton of low-paid labor. I don't think any amount of money could ever get me to do concrete work, and pretty much every job sucks in South Texas in the summer, but roofing is the worst on that count. Plumbing and electrician probably pay a bit better at least, but it's still work that is often done by immigrants, so there is some competition.

floxy 3y ago

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=conventional+97+mortgage&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=conventional+97+mortgage&ia...

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
Is it easy to find one that doesn't require private mortgage insurance? I remember that being a sticking point when I looked into this in the past few years. The problem I see with requiring such insurance is that I'd already be paying whatever interest rate on a higher loan amount for the same 15- or 30-year period and it's rather insulting when a high credit score isn't a signal that the loan is low risk. How many years of literally 0 late bill payments do I need before I can reasonably expect a bank to assume that I won't miss the payments that I sign up for? (Undefined, unless one has the 20% up front, then 0.) It's a bit of a joke. Anyway, I guess that got a bit rant-y; just saying that this feels more like exploitation by banks than banks offering a reasonable option. It lowers one's purchasing power unless one is able to save for a down payment.
- floxy 3y ago
  I didn't know I was supposed to be insulted by PMI, so I just paid it.
- Zpalmtree 3y ago
  Why should the lender take on more risk because you don't like it?

ericmcer 3y ago

You are totally right housing prices have skyrocketed relative to wages, but you cant just tell kids they are doomed. There have always been good times and hard times and there are always people who succeed or fail regardless.

smileysteve 3y ago
> but you cant just tell kids they are doomed But you can expose them to broader view points; Why is owning a house a goal, or dilemma that would lead to depression? This is perhaps the "American" part; how many countries is home and automobile ownership a top coming of age marker? Environmental disasters are going to happen (especially in top article of Florida) how can a kid take part through volunteering or voting for non disaster policies? Economic disaster ^^ see above ^^ but yes, America has not grasped with demographic shift with baby boomer retirements; and a future lack of workers; this is where parents can teach children self sufficiency.
- boredpeter 3y ago
  Owning a home is a goal because the alternative is lifetime wage slavery to fund a landlord’s lavish lifestyle. People don’t want to be exploited and see home ownership as a way to get out of that cycle of exploitation and building enough wealth to someday retire.
  - robocat 3y ago
    Paying mortgage interest is even worse slavery in my limited experience. A mortgage really ties you down. > building enough wealth Our current environment looks like that if you are older. Thinking of your house as savings is weird: personally I think you need a house and retirement savings - and safe retirement savings is an oxymoron because it depends on the demographics and economy. I'm not sure that younger people can rely on the idea that their house will be worth enough because it depends on population demographics - housing is a Ponzi scheme where the older population sells there home to younger people until at some point the youngest person risks being left with something worthless: Japan and Italy have houses for ¥0 or €1 due to aging population. https://edition.cnn.com/travel/patrica-italy-town-one-euro-homes-struggle/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/patrica-italy-town-one-euro-h...

RegBarclay 3y ago

I'll add my own anecdata here. My older kids are in their late 20s and one has bought a home and the other is buying a new build home this year. My youngest is 18, the greatest consumer of social media of my 4 children, and she's convinced she won't be able to buy a home like her under-30 siblings are doing right now. Sounds very much like a YMMV situation, but it feels like social media has influenced my youngest to believe otherwise.

floxy 3y ago
If someone is convinced that all housing is going to stay/become extravagantly expensive, shouldn't they get into real estate development to cash in on the opportunity? So they can build houses/condos/etc. Seems like they could become architects, or real estate agents, or work for (or own) a construction company. Maybe designing robots that build houses. Or work for a REIT.
- hnfong 3y ago
  There’s a difference between being the owner of a construction business and being an employee. The business owner assumes the risks and upside if real estate is to become expensive, but the employees are mostly affected by supply and demand of other workers - I.e. even if there is high demand of workers in the real estate sector, if there’s a high supply of workers to satisfy the demand, there won’t be a big increase in salary for them. That said, it does seem people generally are implicitly bullish on housing prices becoming more expensive over time. That’s how to interpret the fact that the first significant investment of many people's savings is a house. If people held the contrary opinion (that real estate in general are going to deprecate in value) then the idea of buying a house may not be so ubiquitous .
- silverquiet 3y ago
  I notice a distinct lack of jobs like plumber or carpenter in that list. In some sense my parents are home builders (I'd say it's like a hobby for them), so I have some familiarity with the process. I even fill in some of the labor on occasion. It really doesn't require a lot of administrative work (though they avoid building in places with lots of codes at this point), but a ton of low-paid labor. I don't think any amount of money could ever get me to do concrete work, and pretty much every job sucks in South Texas in the summer, but roofing is the worst on that count. Plumbing and electrician probably pay a bit better at least, but it's still work that is often done by immigrants, so there is some competition.