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The last thing we need is to force everyone to have ID to “protect the children” before I can go on to a site on the internet.
by scarface_74 3y ago
The last thing we need is to force everyone to have ID to “protect the children” before I can go on to a site on the internet.
- consumer451 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- oliwarner 3y agoWhich is not what anyone is calling for.
- thomastjeffery 3y agoWhat? That's literally what we are talking about!
- oliwarner 3y agoNo, we're talking about stopping children having social media accounts.
- jonathankoren 3y agoAnd how do you know they're not a child? Bars do it by having you show an id. Online pot dispensaries do it by having you upload an id. Texas expects porn sites to do it by having you upload an id. How does Florida expect a site to do it? This is a legitimate question that I want the answer to. Presumably "check this box" isn't going to cut it. So if it's not the most common way to enforce an actual legal restriction, then what is it?
- Brybry 3y agoThere's really no need for ID checking. Most porn sites already self-regulated by marking their content adult with meta tags/headers. Parental control software picks up on that. [1] Social media could do the same thing: make a social media adults-only meta tag for parental control software to use. For the parents that care, and use parental control software, the ID laws won't stop their kids running into porn. The porn their kids are going to encounter is going to be on non-porn sites like twitter or reddit (or small sites that don't care about these laws anyway). Maybe we needed a bigger push for more awareness or better parental control software but the ID law push is weird and unamerican to me. [1] https://www.rtalabel.org/ https://www.rtalabel.org/
- wvenable 3y ago> Parental control software picks up on that. [1] That's client side. This law specifically makes this a server-side issue; the service cannot let a minor make an account. How do you do that without ID?
- Brybry 3y agoBy not having this law and doing it client side. My opinion is the law is bad.
- wvenable 3y agoThis law might have never come up if we had better parental controls at every level of the software and hardware stack. I'm a parent I have parent controls setup on my child's devices but it's very hard to dial it in properly and cover all the bases. It should be far more straight forward to manage than it is now. I'm obviously pretty tech savvy and I would say 99% of parents are not going to get this right.
- scarface_74 3y agoI can’t speak for PCs or Android devices. But iOS devices already have parental controls built in as do Macs
- ziddoap 3y agoHow do you imagine that will be enforced? Perhaps by... ID? Do you have another method to prove age? One that doesn't require ID, and can be implemented as of today?
- oliwarner 3y ago> How do you imagine that will be enforced? Perhaps by... ID? Emphasis mine. It's that that which I'm disputing. This law does not require you to have an account to go onto a website. It is a law that requires you are age-checked to hold an account on social media platforms. These are different things. Holding an account —broadly speaking— allows you to post, like, comment, follow and be profiled in an enduring fashion. Some of these can have life-long implications that 12 year olds aren't equipped to evaluate. How many adults can identify unhealthy social media usage and do something to stop it? I don't know how age verification will work in practice. Checking a government ID is one way but if you're handing that off to a third party service, it's expensive. They don't need to know who you are for certain. A similar check is when you buy alcohol. If you look young, you're asked for ID. When I buy alcohol, I'm not because I look like a man with kids nearing his forties. It would be far cheaper for Facebook to have an AI watch a video of you speaking to camera, with ID as a fallback. Many social media platforms are ingesting gigabytes of our faces every day so. They probably already know the rough ages of their users. But going on a website (eg Youtube) doesn't require you have a profile. Going on Facebook business pages doesn't require it. If anything, laws like this might mean that things like Instagram have to be more open to preserve their reach. Not a bad outcome, IMO.
- scarface_74 3y agoWhen you buy alcohol, it’s very easy to see whether they are taking and storing your picture. You can also buy alcohol with cash leaving no digital footprint. And is AI the new blockchain that will magically solve every problem? And most children over 14 don’t have government IDs either. If you don’t want your kids to be on Facebook, use parental controls. It’s the parents responsibility. I live in Florida for context. The same government officials talk out of the left side of their mouths about “parental choice” and now this law says children can’t be on social media even with parental consent.
- tristan957 3y agoPornhub just blocked Texas. We are very much using children as an excuse for big government.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y agoBig government forced licensure upon motor vehicle operators because early on they demonstrated a tendency to cause societal harm. There is a place where libertarian ideals have to be curtailed for the greater good.
- tristan957 3y agoWhat are the positive effects of blocking Pornhub?
- scarface_74 3y agoYou didn’t answer the question. It’s one thing for the government to have your ID and tied to a physical activity. Do you want Facebook to have a copy of your ID? Do you want the government to be able to ask Facebook who said something that offended them for your real ID? There have been cases where the cops arrested someone for criticizing them on Facebook https://theconversation.com/mocking-the-police-got-an-ohio-man-arrested-and-the-supreme-court-ignored-the-onions-plea-to-define-the-limits-of-parody-200480 https://theconversation.com/mocking-the-police-got-an-ohio-m... The cops also raided a newspaper for criticizing them https://kansasreflector.com/2023/08/12/in-marion-county-newspaper-raid-a-grim-threat-to-kansans-first-amendment-rights/ https://kansasreflector.com/2023/08/12/in-marion-county-news... We have to be free to criticize the government anonymously
- ndriscoll 3y agoThe law appears to require Facebook offer "anonymous age verification" through a third party (so ID is not shared with Facebook), and requires that third party must not retain or share PII used for verification. For reference: https://flsenate.gov/session/bill/2024/3/billtext/er/pdf https://flsenate.gov/session/bill/2024/3/billtext/er/pdf The Texas porn law similarly required no records be retained, with pretty steep penalties ($10k per record) for noncompliance.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bear141 3y ago“Think of the children!!!” Has been used for a very very long time to enact terrible laws and quietly remove rights. It is everywhere you look.
- knightoffaith 3y agoRight, definitely wouldn't want that. But do we just have to accept the negative impact the internet can have on children as a necessary evil then?
- scarface_74 3y agoSo you would be okay giving your ID to Facebook or any other site before you can access it?
- knightoffaith 3y agoNo, I wouldn't. I'm just wondering if we have to accept the consequences for children or if there's some alternative solution.
- scarface_74 3y agoHow do you propose that social media sites verify your age without showing them your ID?
- fragmede 3y agoBy showing a third party their ID that doesn't share the actual ID with eg, Facebook. That third party would then share their status with Facebook. Facebook doesn't get the ID, but does get to verify that they're of age (or not).
- scarface_74 3y agoSo now the government still has a way to match a user with a real person and we have to trust a third party company with our ID? And I should have to do that as a 50 year old guy with grown kids for “the children”? How about if parents are concerned about their kids, they should use the parental controls that are already available. And this isn’t theoretical for me. I live in Florida.
- 3y ago
- gopher_space 3y agoKids-only internet (moderated by child development phds, idk) you need specific, cheap hardware to access. Less walled garden, more sandbox. It wouldn't be a place for entrepreneurs. Registration and access maintained at the county level or smaller so that community standards and relationships shape adoption and use. Low age cutoff with actual adults trying to connect put in jail and on a list.
- scarface_74 3y agoI’m struggling to parse anything you said.
- gopher_space 3y agoI'm arguing for a completely separate kindernet. While on packed public transportation.
- scarface_74 3y agoWho is going to pay for it and who is going to decide what’s appropriate? If the government decides, what happens when a party is in control of government that has opposite views than yours?