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Instead, it's targeted at replacing graphics artists and software developers... It would be nice if we would not stigmatize manual labor. There's nothing wron

Instead, it's targeted at replacing graphics artists and software developers... It would be nice if we would not stigmatize manual labor. There's nothing wrong with manual labor. For some people, it's ideal. In a city where I used to live, I'd frequently come home on red eye flights. Over time I started to recognize a couple of older gentlemen mopping the floors in the early morning hours. Then one day, they were gone. Instead, there was a slow-moving robot mopping the floors. One clearly too large to get into all the places where the dirt accumulates, but... Automation! A couple of years later, I learned that the airport was part of a municipal program employing intellectually challenged adults, and that the cleaning guys I saw were probably part of that. Now when I travel through that airport, I always wonder what happened to them. Did they find another mopping job? Are they homeless now? Do they have to live under a bridge because society fetishizes technology and robots? Because budget spreadsheets always have a line for "money saved," but never a line for "lives improved?" Mopping the floors at the airport is not a great job for a tech bro who wants to make seven figures. But it's a good, honest job for a lot of people.

asimovfan 3y ago
If there are people intellectually challenged, the solution is not to abuse them for menial tasks which noone want.
- reaperducer 3y ago
  Clearly you've never worked with the intellectually challenged. These are people who want to live normal lives, and like most normal people find earning an honest wage and providing for themselves very rewarding. And to describe manual labor as "abuse" is, frankly, disgusting.
  - asimovfan 3y ago
    I have family members who are intellectually challenged and my work is manual labour. There could be many therapeutic applications provided by the government where they could still live 'normal' lives (this is obviously wrong because they do need different conditions, if you really want to benefit them they will have different requirements). Normal lives do not mean doing work that is tiresome. Perhaps in a different world manual labour could be something good, but i dont think its honest of you to say that you think people who do manual labour are not being abused.
    - reaperducer 3y ago
      i dont think its honest of you to say that you think people who do manual labour are not being abused. The next time you drive through a construction zone, let the construction workers know how you feel. I'm interested to hear their responses. EDIT: Since HN doesn't permit me to respond to your response, I'll note here that I have worked plenty of manual labor jobs. I've been poor. Very poor. I'm better off today than I was then. But, I don't recall ever thinking that having a job involving manual labor was abuse. It was just a job. It's what you did to pay the rent, and hopefully buy some ramen and canned potatoes for the week. I've done landscaping, and mucked out toilets, and cleaned out the pits of elevator shafts, hauled endless boxes from one end of a factory to the other, and I've always taken pride in my work. Perhaps I was just brought up differently than you were.
      - asimovfan 3y ago
        Having worked in many, many menial jobs, i can tell you that there is definitely the general tendency to think that we were being abused in all of them. Perhaps you can try working at a mcdonalds or something or as a janitor for a while, see how you feel about your employers or the institution that is employing you.
      - asimovfan 3y ago
        As you yourself admit, you describe your own experience with such work in negative terms, conditions of being 'very poor'. Why would you wish it on a person who is intellectually challenged? Regarding ethics of work, you are talking about something completely different. Being proud of working an honest job is not the subject at hand.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  menial tasks which noone want I enjoy manual labor and I wish it was easier to get paid for it. I find cognitive work more pleasant and satisfying when I devote part of my time to external physical effort, which forces me to focus my mind outward instead of on abstractions. It seems to me (reading your other comments) that your issue is not with manual labor per se but the capitalistic system that devalues it and gives many manual laborers as little autonomy as possible.
  - asimovfan 3y ago
    Indeed, it is as you say.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

asimovfan 3y ago

If there are people intellectually challenged, the solution is not to abuse them for menial tasks which noone want.

reaperducer 3y ago
Clearly you've never worked with the intellectually challenged. These are people who want to live normal lives, and like most normal people find earning an honest wage and providing for themselves very rewarding. And to describe manual labor as "abuse" is, frankly, disgusting.
- asimovfan 3y ago
  I have family members who are intellectually challenged and my work is manual labour. There could be many therapeutic applications provided by the government where they could still live 'normal' lives (this is obviously wrong because they do need different conditions, if you really want to benefit them they will have different requirements). Normal lives do not mean doing work that is tiresome. Perhaps in a different world manual labour could be something good, but i dont think its honest of you to say that you think people who do manual labour are not being abused.
  - reaperducer 3y ago
    i dont think its honest of you to say that you think people who do manual labour are not being abused. The next time you drive through a construction zone, let the construction workers know how you feel. I'm interested to hear their responses. EDIT: Since HN doesn't permit me to respond to your response, I'll note here that I have worked plenty of manual labor jobs. I've been poor. Very poor. I'm better off today than I was then. But, I don't recall ever thinking that having a job involving manual labor was abuse. It was just a job. It's what you did to pay the rent, and hopefully buy some ramen and canned potatoes for the week. I've done landscaping, and mucked out toilets, and cleaned out the pits of elevator shafts, hauled endless boxes from one end of a factory to the other, and I've always taken pride in my work. Perhaps I was just brought up differently than you were.
    - asimovfan 3y ago
      Having worked in many, many menial jobs, i can tell you that there is definitely the general tendency to think that we were being abused in all of them. Perhaps you can try working at a mcdonalds or something or as a janitor for a while, see how you feel about your employers or the institution that is employing you.
    - asimovfan 3y ago
      As you yourself admit, you describe your own experience with such work in negative terms, conditions of being 'very poor'. Why would you wish it on a person who is intellectually challenged? Regarding ethics of work, you are talking about something completely different. Being proud of working an honest job is not the subject at hand.
anigbrowl 3y ago
menial tasks which noone want I enjoy manual labor and I wish it was easier to get paid for it. I find cognitive work more pleasant and satisfying when I devote part of my time to external physical effort, which forces me to focus my mind outward instead of on abstractions. It seems to me (reading your other comments) that your issue is not with manual labor per se but the capitalistic system that devalues it and gives many manual laborers as little autonomy as possible.
- asimovfan 3y ago
  Indeed, it is as you say.
deleted 3y ago
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