3 ms·

_Immigrants_ do better because immigrants have self-selected for people with the ability to leave bad situations in pursuit of a better one, and further self-se

_Immigrants_ do better because immigrants have self-selected for people with the ability to leave bad situations in pursuit of a better one, and further self-selected for those who have succeeded. Immigrants believe that with sufficient effort you can improve your circumstances, because that is their experience.

xyzelement 3y ago
Yes I think that's exactly my point. The immigrants have less resources and are at a disadvantage (eg language) compared to the US born population. But they think and do differently which enables them to achieve escape velocity from poverty. My point is that the same mindset is available to others if they chose to seek it out. Telling yourself how poor and stuck you are precludes that.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  Reasonable, but don't fall into the trap of thinking it's that easy. There are a lot of complicating factors, from what assets an immigrant can leverage on arrival (if any) to how socially connected they are, to whether other political and economic actors push back against immigrants (recall that one major political party defines itself by its willingness to do this).
- TeaDrunk 3y ago
  I disagree with the broad idea that immigrants have less resources compared to the US born population as a category. Immigrants are often more educated than the native US born population, with greater incomes. Nigerian-Americans are some of the highest educated Americans by demographic, and way out-earn their native African-American counterparts. Remember that the immigrants who come to america already have enough resources at minimum to immigrate!
  - tetromino_ 3y ago
    > Immigrants are often more educated than the native US born population ... and are usually unable to do anything with that education because most American employers (outside the very unusual field of software engineering) discount or ignore non-American degrees. An immigrant with an engineering or medical degree making a living by driving an Uber in America is a stereotype very much based in reality. I personally know people who fit that stereotype.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      Especially MDs might not even want to put their life on hold like the medical system wants to redo residency and boards.
- nineplay 3y ago
  People don't 'tell' themselves they are poor and stuck. People learn they are poor and stuck when that has been their experience from their youth. Some people's circumstances are a result of systemic racism that has kept them from succeeding. Some people have been deliberately kept from better jobs, better schools, and better neighborhoods. Some people have consistently bad experiences from the power structure. Possibly it could be argued that many of these barriers can be overcome in the modern age but that is a questionable assertion and the experiences of one's parents and grandparents is not easily overlooked.

xyzelement 3y ago

Yes I think that's exactly my point. The immigrants have less resources and are at a disadvantage (eg language) compared to the US born population. But they think and do differently which enables them to achieve escape velocity from poverty. My point is that the same mindset is available to others if they chose to seek it out. Telling yourself how poor and stuck you are precludes that.

anigbrowl 3y ago
Reasonable, but don't fall into the trap of thinking it's that easy. There are a lot of complicating factors, from what assets an immigrant can leverage on arrival (if any) to how socially connected they are, to whether other political and economic actors push back against immigrants (recall that one major political party defines itself by its willingness to do this).
TeaDrunk 3y ago
I disagree with the broad idea that immigrants have less resources compared to the US born population as a category. Immigrants are often more educated than the native US born population, with greater incomes. Nigerian-Americans are some of the highest educated Americans by demographic, and way out-earn their native African-American counterparts. Remember that the immigrants who come to america already have enough resources at minimum to immigrate!
- tetromino_ 3y ago
  > Immigrants are often more educated than the native US born population ... and are usually unable to do anything with that education because most American employers (outside the very unusual field of software engineering) discount or ignore non-American degrees. An immigrant with an engineering or medical degree making a living by driving an Uber in America is a stereotype very much based in reality. I personally know people who fit that stereotype.
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    Especially MDs might not even want to put their life on hold like the medical system wants to redo residency and boards.
nineplay 3y ago
People don't 'tell' themselves they are poor and stuck. People learn they are poor and stuck when that has been their experience from their youth. Some people's circumstances are a result of systemic racism that has kept them from succeeding. Some people have been deliberately kept from better jobs, better schools, and better neighborhoods. Some people have consistently bad experiences from the power structure. Possibly it could be argued that many of these barriers can be overcome in the modern age but that is a questionable assertion and the experiences of one's parents and grandparents is not easily overlooked.