5 ms·

Does that mean this was effectively captain error? Like in response to a power outage the decision was made to try to reverse and rather than arrest forward mom

Does that mean this was effectively captain error? Like in response to a power outage the decision was made to try to reverse and rather than arrest forward momentum it just pushed their forward vector into the piling?

paddy_m 3y ago
I would tend to think so. The pilot should have anticipated prop walk and known that the ship had no chance of stopping before the bridge. I’m trying to find a color coded current map. Wind too. I wouldn’t expect wind or current to cause the pronounced heading change that is visible. The drift seems possible. Note: I’m an experienced dinghy/keelboat sailor, but lack virtually any experience driving boats under power, much less commercial vessels
- secstate 3y ago
  yeah, noted. But it does seem like the heading change was so dramatic and the smoke pouring out after power recovery that something happened with the prop. And while it may have been currents, the lack of heading change before the smoke seems to suggest there was an intervention that caused heading change. Ship travel, much like orbital mechanics, are so often non-intuitive if you're not familiar with how much effort it takes to make significant speed changes vs. heading changes. And speed changes often affect the heading as well if you're not careful.
- semi-extrinsic 3y ago
  It seems the excellent windy.com has wind and current data from the incident still available. Looks like current was <0.2 kts and wind was 6 kts south-east. So both should be completely negligible.
  - paddy_m 3y ago
    Checks out. .2knots/hour = 405 yards/hour It was 4 minutes from power loss to impact. 405 yards/15 = 27 yards. And that's if the ship instantly accelerated to a 0.2 kt drift, which it wouldn't. Wind acceleration on the vessel than current.
- wyldfire 3y ago
  For some reason, I thought that large vessels hired a local pilot to navigate their way through places like this.
spenczar5 3y ago
Captain, or pilot? In Baltimore, as in most harbors, a local pilot comes on board to guide the ship. Is this their responsibility?
- cududa 3y ago
  I too, have read about Baltimore pilots for the first time today. If you’d read a bit further, the Pilots use either intercoms and sometimes radios to send instructions to the captain while they’re elsewhere on the ship. If they were using intercoms, and there was no power, that would do it
- rdtsc 3y ago
  > In Baltimore, as in most harbors, a local pilot comes on board to guide the ship. Is this their responsibility? I would doubt the pilot would have ordered the power to the ship to be cut and for everything to go dark right before hitting the bridge. Pretty sure they were probably telling them to navigate away from the pylon.
- gumby 3y ago
  Yes, they have the responsibility, not the captain, as evidenced by the specific insurance they carry. Of course, lawyers will try to spread the blame around (who chose the pilot, did captain's actions or orders somehow get in the way of the pilot; did captain not ensure engines were working properly...). But the base responsibility lies with the pilot. It probably helps the captain that this was a ship owned and operated by a very big vertically integrated company (Maersk). Most ships are owned by smaller companies with a few (10-150) hulls and then chartered out. And while in this case the ship was chartered (along with crew) I bet Maersk's systems are stronger than your average charterer's.
  - pyuser583 3y ago
    I thought the pilot only offered “guidance” to avoid responsibility. I learned that from a documentary on the Panama Canal. Is that just a Panama Canal thing? Or should I find better documentaries?

paddy_m 3y ago

I would tend to think so. The pilot should have anticipated prop walk and known that the ship had no chance of stopping before the bridge. I’m trying to find a color coded current map. Wind too. I wouldn’t expect wind or current to cause the pronounced heading change that is visible. The drift seems possible. Note: I’m an experienced dinghy/keelboat sailor, but lack virtually any experience driving boats under power, much less commercial vessels

secstate 3y ago
yeah, noted. But it does seem like the heading change was so dramatic and the smoke pouring out after power recovery that something happened with the prop. And while it may have been currents, the lack of heading change before the smoke seems to suggest there was an intervention that caused heading change. Ship travel, much like orbital mechanics, are so often non-intuitive if you're not familiar with how much effort it takes to make significant speed changes vs. heading changes. And speed changes often affect the heading as well if you're not careful.
semi-extrinsic 3y ago
It seems the excellent windy.com has wind and current data from the incident still available. Looks like current was <0.2 kts and wind was 6 kts south-east. So both should be completely negligible.
- paddy_m 3y ago
  Checks out. .2knots/hour = 405 yards/hour It was 4 minutes from power loss to impact. 405 yards/15 = 27 yards. And that's if the ship instantly accelerated to a 0.2 kt drift, which it wouldn't. Wind acceleration on the vessel than current.
wyldfire 3y ago
For some reason, I thought that large vessels hired a local pilot to navigate their way through places like this.

spenczar5 3y ago

Captain, or pilot? In Baltimore, as in most harbors, a local pilot comes on board to guide the ship. Is this their responsibility?

cududa 3y ago
I too, have read about Baltimore pilots for the first time today. If you’d read a bit further, the Pilots use either intercoms and sometimes radios to send instructions to the captain while they’re elsewhere on the ship. If they were using intercoms, and there was no power, that would do it
rdtsc 3y ago
> In Baltimore, as in most harbors, a local pilot comes on board to guide the ship. Is this their responsibility? I would doubt the pilot would have ordered the power to the ship to be cut and for everything to go dark right before hitting the bridge. Pretty sure they were probably telling them to navigate away from the pylon.
gumby 3y ago
Yes, they have the responsibility, not the captain, as evidenced by the specific insurance they carry. Of course, lawyers will try to spread the blame around (who chose the pilot, did captain's actions or orders somehow get in the way of the pilot; did captain not ensure engines were working properly...). But the base responsibility lies with the pilot. It probably helps the captain that this was a ship owned and operated by a very big vertically integrated company (Maersk). Most ships are owned by smaller companies with a few (10-150) hulls and then chartered out. And while in this case the ship was chartered (along with crew) I bet Maersk's systems are stronger than your average charterer's.
- pyuser583 3y ago
  I thought the pilot only offered “guidance” to avoid responsibility. I learned that from a documentary on the Panama Canal. Is that just a Panama Canal thing? Or should I find better documentaries?