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This might useful for database as a service offerings. If that trend pick up the steam. BTW, I think Oracle and DB2 are still on top of TPC-C is because you re

by tlogan 14y ago

This might useful for database as a service offerings. If that trend pick up the steam. BTW, I think Oracle and DB2 are still on top of TPC-C is because you really don't need any faster database for OLTP than they are now. The maximum number of customers any online shop will not exceed 4 billion... The need for faster OLTP is just not there. Warehousing and big data is a different beast... Oracle did not invest to make faster OLTP but faster OLAP...

spitfire 14y ago
I think that's the point. The idea that you need a different database for OLTP vs OLAP, vs whatever is a technological one. Not a conceptual one. Operationally, if you had the freedom you'd ideally like to have just one database that can handle everything, storing data in appropriately accessible formats (relational, time-series. key-value, document, etc). This is getting commodity open source databases up to that level of "don't care, it's fast enough" for OLTP. Then on to all the other workloads. Think of it like the move from C/C++ to dynamic languages like python or lisp as cpu's got faster. Cool beans.
jhugg 14y ago
If you count OLTP as "a system that places orders created by people", then you might be right. As a VoltDB eng, we see lots of OLTP workloads that require much more throughput than legacy RDBMs can offer on a single system. How many transactions do you think it requires to pick which ads to show you on a webpage? How many updates to your Farmville-style game state are required per minute? How many concurrent users? What about MMOs? Are financial exchange orders OLTP? If so, you have a six-figure TPS problem. What about sensor data? Network packet monitoring? Call data record dashboards?
- tlogan 14y ago
  Yes there is a market but it is not very big. There is only one Zynga. Also note that some of examples you mention are very well solved by streaming databases (Streambase) and event processing systems (which are sold as add-on to databases).
  - jhugg 14y ago
    A big part of my job is talking to people who have scale pain with legacy systems. I don't know what percentage of the DB market this is, but it's nontrivial and growing fast. Most of the markets I mentioned in the previous comment are nearly impossible to be successful in with a single node of legacy RDBMS sitting behind your app. Zynga is far from alone in social gaming scale pain. Consider digital ad-tech. How many ads do you have to show before someone clicks on one? How many clicks do you need to earn $1? That can translate into: The cost of all those DB operations needs to cost way less than $1 or I'm hosed. Enter systems that can scale with less pain. Streambase is a good example of a specialized system that can outperform legacy RDBMSs. Still, it's not like you can say, "All financial problems in scale pain can fix everything with Streambase." It's too specialized. What if you need 100gb of state? There are lots of problems in finance and some of them can be solved with Oracle/DB2 while others can't.

by tlogan 14y ago

spitfire 14y ago

I think that's the point. The idea that you need a different database for OLTP vs OLAP, vs whatever is a technological one. Not a conceptual one. Operationally, if you had the freedom you'd ideally like to have just one database that can handle everything, storing data in appropriately accessible formats (relational, time-series. key-value, document, etc). This is getting commodity open source databases up to that level of "don't care, it's fast enough" for OLTP. Then on to all the other workloads. Think of it like the move from C/C++ to dynamic languages like python or lisp as cpu's got faster. Cool beans.

jhugg 14y ago

If you count OLTP as "a system that places orders created by people", then you might be right. As a VoltDB eng, we see lots of OLTP workloads that require much more throughput than legacy RDBMs can offer on a single system. How many transactions do you think it requires to pick which ads to show you on a webpage? How many updates to your Farmville-style game state are required per minute? How many concurrent users? What about MMOs? Are financial exchange orders OLTP? If so, you have a six-figure TPS problem. What about sensor data? Network packet monitoring? Call data record dashboards?

tlogan 14y ago
Yes there is a market but it is not very big. There is only one Zynga. Also note that some of examples you mention are very well solved by streaming databases (Streambase) and event processing systems (which are sold as add-on to databases).
- jhugg 14y ago
  A big part of my job is talking to people who have scale pain with legacy systems. I don't know what percentage of the DB market this is, but it's nontrivial and growing fast. Most of the markets I mentioned in the previous comment are nearly impossible to be successful in with a single node of legacy RDBMS sitting behind your app. Zynga is far from alone in social gaming scale pain. Consider digital ad-tech. How many ads do you have to show before someone clicks on one? How many clicks do you need to earn $1? That can translate into: The cost of all those DB operations needs to cost way less than $1 or I'm hosed. Enter systems that can scale with less pain. Streambase is a good example of a specialized system that can outperform legacy RDBMSs. Still, it's not like you can say, "All financial problems in scale pain can fix everything with Streambase." It's too specialized. What if you need 100gb of state? There are lots of problems in finance and some of them can be solved with Oracle/DB2 while others can't.