4 ms·

This is where countries like Vietnam excel. The level of corruption at all levels of government jobs is unparalleled. All you have to do is find the right conn

This is where countries like Vietnam excel. The level of corruption at all levels of government jobs is unparalleled. All you have to do is find the right connection (usually through a family member), pay some "coffee money" and whatever you want, you can get. This would have been resolved for probably $20-40, but it would have only taken a few minutes of your time and a lot less frustration.

int_19h 3y ago
As the Russian saying goes, "severity of the law is mitigated by not having to follow it".
- pyuser583 3y ago
  Someone called the Russian constitution “tyranny mitigated by assasination.’
  - int_19h 3y ago
    I haven't heard that one. And, to be honest, it doesn't really make much sense to me, because the modern Russian constitution is a pretty nice document overall, guaranteeing all the good stuff etc. It's just that it's never really been followed. This isn't new, either - e.g. the 1936 Constitution of the USSR (adopted under Stalin) was considered a very liberal document for its time. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly were all guaranteed, there was strict separation of powers, universal franchise with secret voting, and so on. Ironically, most of the people who authored it would end up in gulags or with a bullet in their head within a few years of its publication.
    - pyuser583 3y ago
      This quote would be from the 19th century or a bit earlier. Either Abraham Lincoln or one of the American Founding Fathers. So it would be talking about the Czars.
      - int_19h 3y ago
        That still sounds off given that Russia didn't have any constitution at all until 1906, after the first Russian revolution. Getting one was the primary demand of Russian liberals throughout the 19th century, and was stubbornly resisted by the monarchy because a ruler bound by any kind of constitution is no longer a proper "autocrat", which was an important ideological distinction for the Empire. Even when it comes to informal, customary constitutions, the only restriction that was universally upheld was that the reigning monarch had to be Eastern Orthodox (if they weren't, they ipso facto didn't have the divine right to rule). Everything else was ultimately subject to the Emperor's whim.
yieldcrv 3y ago
One thing I like about America is that we have the same levels of corruption, you can just codify the same process in the law and call it due process Many states, agencies have “expedited processing” options built in Looks like Colorado’s DMV did not At the state and municipal level, you might be surprised how easy it is to lobby for a tiny tweak you would personally like. You don’t have to be registered to vote there, and many times its not even a popular vote required. Just the mayor or a 5 member county board who are even more of a grifter than you are.
- latchkey 3y ago
  You make a very good point. Passport processing is another good example. However, it is so much more fun to pay someone directly where you know it is going to feed their family vs. just being an additional tax to the government. One guy once told me that my money was helping buy his kids books for school. I don't know if he was lying, but I appreciated the thought.
  - stefs 3y ago
    This soinds so weird and absurd to me: "i'd rather pay bribes to corrupt individuals than taxes to my government."
    - latchkey 3y ago
      Have you lived in Vietnam or any country where this is a thing? It is weird, until you realize that it often works in your best interest. For example, if I get pulled over in Vietnam while driving a motorbike, I can just pay the "fine" right then and there. While I admit, it is totally corrupt and questionable, it sure beats spending hours going to the police station and dealing with language issues. Obviously, this isn't good for locals since it is used as a form of extortion, but it is what it is. I'm not in Vietnam to fix the problems there. The world is indeed a strange place...
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
lostlogin 3y ago
This might help with something benign, or with fixing an error, but what if it is vindictive? Can I pay the police to make someone’s life miserable? The police sound more like a cartel or gang running a protection racket. I don’t want the Vietnamese system, and while problems with the US system seem too common, I think I’d prefer the US system.
- latchkey 3y ago
  The police there are absolutely corrupt. The way the system works there is that you buy your job. This is what creates the incentive to find ways to use the system to make money. On the other hand, it also creates optimization incentives as well, so that things get done more quickly. The harsh reality is that no system is perfect. Each one usually has its +/-'s and usually depends on which side of the fence you're sitting on.

int_19h 3y ago

As the Russian saying goes, "severity of the law is mitigated by not having to follow it".

pyuser583 3y ago
Someone called the Russian constitution “tyranny mitigated by assasination.’
- int_19h 3y ago
  I haven't heard that one. And, to be honest, it doesn't really make much sense to me, because the modern Russian constitution is a pretty nice document overall, guaranteeing all the good stuff etc. It's just that it's never really been followed. This isn't new, either - e.g. the 1936 Constitution of the USSR (adopted under Stalin) was considered a very liberal document for its time. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly were all guaranteed, there was strict separation of powers, universal franchise with secret voting, and so on. Ironically, most of the people who authored it would end up in gulags or with a bullet in their head within a few years of its publication.
  - pyuser583 3y ago
    This quote would be from the 19th century or a bit earlier. Either Abraham Lincoln or one of the American Founding Fathers. So it would be talking about the Czars.
    - int_19h 3y ago
      That still sounds off given that Russia didn't have any constitution at all until 1906, after the first Russian revolution. Getting one was the primary demand of Russian liberals throughout the 19th century, and was stubbornly resisted by the monarchy because a ruler bound by any kind of constitution is no longer a proper "autocrat", which was an important ideological distinction for the Empire. Even when it comes to informal, customary constitutions, the only restriction that was universally upheld was that the reigning monarch had to be Eastern Orthodox (if they weren't, they ipso facto didn't have the divine right to rule). Everything else was ultimately subject to the Emperor's whim.

yieldcrv 3y ago

One thing I like about America is that we have the same levels of corruption, you can just codify the same process in the law and call it due process Many states, agencies have “expedited processing” options built in Looks like Colorado’s DMV did not At the state and municipal level, you might be surprised how easy it is to lobby for a tiny tweak you would personally like. You don’t have to be registered to vote there, and many times its not even a popular vote required. Just the mayor or a 5 member county board who are even more of a grifter than you are.

latchkey 3y ago
You make a very good point. Passport processing is another good example. However, it is so much more fun to pay someone directly where you know it is going to feed their family vs. just being an additional tax to the government. One guy once told me that my money was helping buy his kids books for school. I don't know if he was lying, but I appreciated the thought.
- stefs 3y ago
  This soinds so weird and absurd to me: "i'd rather pay bribes to corrupt individuals than taxes to my government."
  - latchkey 3y ago
    Have you lived in Vietnam or any country where this is a thing? It is weird, until you realize that it often works in your best interest. For example, if I get pulled over in Vietnam while driving a motorbike, I can just pay the "fine" right then and there. While I admit, it is totally corrupt and questionable, it sure beats spending hours going to the police station and dealing with language issues. Obviously, this isn't good for locals since it is used as a form of extortion, but it is what it is. I'm not in Vietnam to fix the problems there. The world is indeed a strange place...
    - dragonwriter 3y ago

lostlogin 3y ago

This might help with something benign, or with fixing an error, but what if it is vindictive? Can I pay the police to make someone’s life miserable? The police sound more like a cartel or gang running a protection racket. I don’t want the Vietnamese system, and while problems with the US system seem too common, I think I’d prefer the US system.

latchkey 3y ago
The police there are absolutely corrupt. The way the system works there is that you buy your job. This is what creates the incentive to find ways to use the system to make money. On the other hand, it also creates optimization incentives as well, so that things get done more quickly. The harsh reality is that no system is perfect. Each one usually has its +/-'s and usually depends on which side of the fence you're sitting on.