3 ms·

Ohio resident, Ohio is not very bike friendly. There's recreational trails but a lot of metro areas don't have bike infrastructure (unless you count painting a

by nijave 3y ago

Ohio resident, Ohio is not very bike friendly. There's recreational trails but a lot of metro areas don't have bike infrastructure (unless you count painting a little biker icon on the right traffic lane). It's also of limited use for someone with dependents (kids, disabled) or a home owner (invariably you'll end up transporting large items owning a home unless you're going to coordinate deliveries). In addition, it can get quite cold in the winter -20F wild chill and it tends to rain the majority of May/June. Frequently near or above 100F in late July/August. These are all surmountable but require a fair bit of outdoor gear and a decent bike. This completely ignores all the folks that live outside metro areas. A bike is a complete non starter for anyone with a farm (which is fairly common outside metro areas...) The town I grew up in had a "drive your family's tractor to school" day before homecoming in high school since you can drive a tractor at 14 (I think without a license)

scoofy 3y ago
My entire point is "yes there are edge cases, but most people could cycle if they really needed to." You point to some perfectly reasonable counter-examples, which I specifically referenced. However, most people here, including yourself are taking the position that "if it can't work for everybody, then it can't work for anybody" which is nonsense. You point out that there aren't cycling facilities, while pointing to cycling facilities. You point to things like deliveries as though that isn't simply an inconvenience. The Ohio has six cities with populations in the hundreds of thousands. Again, I'm not saying I agree with the policies here. I'm saying that losing a drivers license, especially in the wake of at-fault collisions, moving violations, fines, as well as many other reasons why the state might want to compel individuals to fulfill some reasonable request is not always, because America, a hardship. Alternatives exist for many-if-not-most people. Driving is an earned privileged, not a right. If a hardship exists, it should be considered, but there are alternatives in many, many parts of the country, even Ohio.
- ssl-3 3y ago
  "If it can't work for everybody, then it can't work for anybody" is indeed nonsense. However, in Ohio, very few people are able to productively survive with only a bicycle as transportation. Some can, and some do (whether by force or by choice). But just because it can work for some doesn't mean that it must also be able to work for many, or for most.
  - scoofy 3y ago
    I’m talking about people for whom the state has good reason to suspend their drivers license.
    - ssl-3 3y ago
      Neat. I suppose that the small subset of people who can manage to survive in Ohio with only a bicycle must neatly overlap with the small subset of people who have had their license suspended as a punishment for debt, then, since that's the only way that these words of yours support your greater concept. (And I've been that person, in Ohio. AMA.)
- nijave 3y ago
  Horse drawn buggy is also an alternative Ohioans successfully use for transportion without a driver's license. Many alternatives are possible while not generally practical.
- vdqtp3 3y ago
  > Driving is an earned privileged, not a right. Pursuit of happiness, using whatever transportation you wish, is not a privilege
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    The constitution does not actually give you any right to the pursuit of happiness. The declaration of independence was a breakup letter, not a legal document. If you wanted to murder someone in the "pursuit of happiness", that would be still be a crime. Driving is a privilege and you have zero inherent right to it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- supertrope 3y ago
  My standard for bike infrastructure is: Is it safe enough for a 65 year old woman to ride comfortably? Spandex wearing elite bicyclists who dare to ride in the shoulder of a 55 MPH road are much braver than most.
  - scoofy 3y ago
    My point is that a cycling instead of driving might be a hardship for a 65 year old woman living in a certain area, at certain times of the year. That does not mean it's a hardship for everyone all the time. We are talking about the court's ability to revoke a drivers license to specific people, who live in specific places. Sometimes it's a hardship, other times, it's not.

by nijave 3y ago

scoofy 3y ago

My entire point is "yes there are edge cases, but most people could cycle if they really needed to." You point to some perfectly reasonable counter-examples, which I specifically referenced. However, most people here, including yourself are taking the position that "if it can't work for everybody, then it can't work for anybody" which is nonsense. You point out that there aren't cycling facilities, while pointing to cycling facilities. You point to things like deliveries as though that isn't simply an inconvenience. The Ohio has six cities with populations in the hundreds of thousands. Again, I'm not saying I agree with the policies here. I'm saying that losing a drivers license, especially in the wake of at-fault collisions, moving violations, fines, as well as many other reasons why the state might want to compel individuals to fulfill some reasonable request is not always, because America, a hardship. Alternatives exist for many-if-not-most people. Driving is an earned privileged, not a right. If a hardship exists, it should be considered, but there are alternatives in many, many parts of the country, even Ohio.

ssl-3 3y ago
"If it can't work for everybody, then it can't work for anybody" is indeed nonsense. However, in Ohio, very few people are able to productively survive with only a bicycle as transportation. Some can, and some do (whether by force or by choice). But just because it can work for some doesn't mean that it must also be able to work for many, or for most.
- scoofy 3y ago
  I’m talking about people for whom the state has good reason to suspend their drivers license.
  - ssl-3 3y ago
    Neat. I suppose that the small subset of people who can manage to survive in Ohio with only a bicycle must neatly overlap with the small subset of people who have had their license suspended as a punishment for debt, then, since that's the only way that these words of yours support your greater concept. (And I've been that person, in Ohio. AMA.)
nijave 3y ago
Horse drawn buggy is also an alternative Ohioans successfully use for transportion without a driver's license. Many alternatives are possible while not generally practical.
vdqtp3 3y ago
> Driving is an earned privileged, not a right. Pursuit of happiness, using whatever transportation you wish, is not a privilege
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  The constitution does not actually give you any right to the pursuit of happiness. The declaration of independence was a breakup letter, not a legal document. If you wanted to murder someone in the "pursuit of happiness", that would be still be a crime. Driving is a privilege and you have zero inherent right to it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
supertrope 3y ago
My standard for bike infrastructure is: Is it safe enough for a 65 year old woman to ride comfortably? Spandex wearing elite bicyclists who dare to ride in the shoulder of a 55 MPH road are much braver than most.
- scoofy 3y ago
  My point is that a cycling instead of driving might be a hardship for a 65 year old woman living in a certain area, at certain times of the year. That does not mean it's a hardship for everyone all the time. We are talking about the court's ability to revoke a drivers license to specific people, who live in specific places. Sometimes it's a hardship, other times, it's not.