4 ms·

I have mixed feelings. I agree with you regarding the "Child support suspensions." But most of these categories seem like non-crazy (can't quite go so far as "r

I have mixed feelings. I agree with you regarding the "Child support suspensions." But most of these categories seem like non-crazy (can't quite go so far as "reasonable") attempts to enforce laws relating to responsible operation of a vehicle. I think it's helpful to point that out, since the article at least facially makes it sound like this is about purely private debt. Your point still stands about these being debt traps though. But in many cases they're downstream from some other payment that the government requires, like registration fees, or the requirement to hold a private auto insurance policy. Maybe we should worry about these in the first instance and not just the license-revocation rules designed to enforce them. What if we just didn't have a registration fee? Or maybe we should socialize auto insurance so the poor aren't priced out of driving in the first place?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
michaelmrose 3y ago
If most of those boil down to pay n dollars and keep driving why don't we pursue normal collection methods designed to collect n dollars. This has the nice effect that if there is any disagreement or misunderstanding you can keep driving to work while working through it or collect the money over time where appropriate. For instance the state of SC sent a tax bill to the wrong address and 30 days later suspended my wife's license which we discovered in another state while traveling. We believed that we had paid the taxes for the car as part of the purchase as is normal. Although the tax bill for her car was tangentially related to her license using one to enforce the other just led to complexity and stupidity.
- semiquaver 3y ago
  > pursue normal collection methods designed to collect n dollars There is no such thing, at least not one that can effectively recoup any money. To a first approximation, unsecured debts are never collected in the US. Collectors purchase debt for pennies on the dollar because only 1-5% by value of such debts are ever paid. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/the-waste-stream-of-consumer-finance/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/the-waste-stream-of-c... Turning over child support debt to the private unsecured debt collection industry means that children won’t be supported. Debt collection is an entirely different matter when the creditor has something to hold over the debtor’s head, which is what is happening here and it’s a good thing. Child support payments are determined in large part by ability to pay. The state absolutely should use the leverage at its disposal to ensure children are provided for.
  - michaelmrose 3y ago
    Child support is based on oft fictional "ability to pay" that may or may not be grounded in reality. Garnishing wages and seizing assets already has teeth and child support payments are already far more collectable than credit cards. Attacking licences in 99% of cases attacks ability to pay in a counterproductive fashion. The state should avoid "leverage" and stick to direct consequences like taking your money to give to your kids or taking licenses because people are unfit to drive. Shall we attach state ID next or ability to ride on public transit. Once you stop caring about principals and start justifying means based on ends you stop having a meaningful theory of how government ought to work.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

michaelmrose 3y ago

If most of those boil down to pay n dollars and keep driving why don't we pursue normal collection methods designed to collect n dollars. This has the nice effect that if there is any disagreement or misunderstanding you can keep driving to work while working through it or collect the money over time where appropriate. For instance the state of SC sent a tax bill to the wrong address and 30 days later suspended my wife's license which we discovered in another state while traveling. We believed that we had paid the taxes for the car as part of the purchase as is normal. Although the tax bill for her car was tangentially related to her license using one to enforce the other just led to complexity and stupidity.

semiquaver 3y ago
> pursue normal collection methods designed to collect n dollars There is no such thing, at least not one that can effectively recoup any money. To a first approximation, unsecured debts are never collected in the US. Collectors purchase debt for pennies on the dollar because only 1-5% by value of such debts are ever paid. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/the-waste-stream-of-consumer-finance/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/the-waste-stream-of-c... Turning over child support debt to the private unsecured debt collection industry means that children won’t be supported. Debt collection is an entirely different matter when the creditor has something to hold over the debtor’s head, which is what is happening here and it’s a good thing. Child support payments are determined in large part by ability to pay. The state absolutely should use the leverage at its disposal to ensure children are provided for.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  Child support is based on oft fictional "ability to pay" that may or may not be grounded in reality. Garnishing wages and seizing assets already has teeth and child support payments are already far more collectable than credit cards. Attacking licences in 99% of cases attacks ability to pay in a counterproductive fashion. The state should avoid "leverage" and stick to direct consequences like taking your money to give to your kids or taking licenses because people are unfit to drive. Shall we attach state ID next or ability to ride on public transit. Once you stop caring about principals and start justifying means based on ends you stop having a meaningful theory of how government ought to work.