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> at the same time ignoring the impact on low income people. That's a HUGE problem. > If you think suspension of a drivers license, which is just a temporary

> at the same time ignoring the impact on low income people. That's a HUGE problem. > If you think suspension of a drivers license, which is just a temporary paperwork condition "temporary paperwork condition"? Are you advocating driving on a suspended license? Because someone who can no longer drive to work either loses their job or it's suddenly very expensive to drive. > you shouldn't assume that all poor people are victims of some external circumstance. It's not a uniform "class" of people you can think of this way. Well no, of course not. Some people are poor because of shitty choices. But poverty is extremely difficult to escape, whether or not it's because of shitty choices. I think it's fair to try to improve the lives of people that are poor because of external circumstance, even if it means we end up helping people who you feel don't deserve help because poor choices led them to be poor.

deleted 3y ago
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akira2501 3y ago
> That's a HUGE problem. It may be large, but do you have any information that can put the size of this problem in context with the others? > Are you advocating driving on a suspended license? I'm merely recognizing that doing so is possible without bringing further harm to yourself, while having your paycheck garnished is entirely unavoidable. Further if you're driving for an actually good reason, I doubt most police officers would make an issue of the paperwork condition. Finally there are many states where simply driving with a suspended or revoked license is not an arrestable or towable offense. > But poverty is extremely difficult to escape If you are unwilling to change anything else about their lives, then yes, it's hard to make the same actions have a different result. In particular, even if you try, you're probably just moving consequences and risk around the system in a careless fashion. > even if it means we end up helping people who you feel don't deserve help So far I've failed to witness "throw money at the problem" or "let them off the hook" actually _improve_ anything other than the conscience of the people who advocate for it.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > Further if you're driving for an actually good reason, I doubt most police officers would make an issue of the paperwork condition That's a pretty ballsy assertion. > Finally there are many states where simply driving with a suspended or revoked license is not an arrestable or towable offense. Even in those, they'll just keep fining you. Great solution.
  - akira2501 3y ago
    > That's a pretty ballsy assertion. You've missed the point entirely. If you gave me the choice between doing this or having my paycheck GARNISHED, I think the choice is obvious. > Even in those, they'll just keep fining you. Great solution. So, just garnish their checks, then? Are we discussing solutions or just being mad that problems exist and the world isn't perfect?
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      You say I miss the point entirely. I grasped one of your points, though we may agree to disagree. But your claim that "most law enforcement, even after discovering your license is suspended, upon hearing "but I'm just going to work", are going to say "oh well, far be it from me to make you late", and let you go"... needs citation. Well, you also ignore that while you may not be arrested, you are going to be charged with at least a misdemeanor in all fifty states, if not a felony (and in some states, after X driving on a suspended license misdemeanors it becomes a felony) - so it's not as simple as "cool, just keep fining me, I'll pay you eventually, maybe", and no other consequences.

deleted 3y ago

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akira2501 3y ago

> That's a HUGE problem. It may be large, but do you have any information that can put the size of this problem in context with the others? > Are you advocating driving on a suspended license? I'm merely recognizing that doing so is possible without bringing further harm to yourself, while having your paycheck garnished is entirely unavoidable. Further if you're driving for an actually good reason, I doubt most police officers would make an issue of the paperwork condition. Finally there are many states where simply driving with a suspended or revoked license is not an arrestable or towable offense. > But poverty is extremely difficult to escape If you are unwilling to change anything else about their lives, then yes, it's hard to make the same actions have a different result. In particular, even if you try, you're probably just moving consequences and risk around the system in a careless fashion. > even if it means we end up helping people who you feel don't deserve help So far I've failed to witness "throw money at the problem" or "let them off the hook" actually _improve_ anything other than the conscience of the people who advocate for it.

FireBeyond 3y ago
> Further if you're driving for an actually good reason, I doubt most police officers would make an issue of the paperwork condition That's a pretty ballsy assertion. > Finally there are many states where simply driving with a suspended or revoked license is not an arrestable or towable offense. Even in those, they'll just keep fining you. Great solution.
- akira2501 3y ago
  > That's a pretty ballsy assertion. You've missed the point entirely. If you gave me the choice between doing this or having my paycheck GARNISHED, I think the choice is obvious. > Even in those, they'll just keep fining you. Great solution. So, just garnish their checks, then? Are we discussing solutions or just being mad that problems exist and the world isn't perfect?
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    You say I miss the point entirely. I grasped one of your points, though we may agree to disagree. But your claim that "most law enforcement, even after discovering your license is suspended, upon hearing "but I'm just going to work", are going to say "oh well, far be it from me to make you late", and let you go"... needs citation. Well, you also ignore that while you may not be arrested, you are going to be charged with at least a misdemeanor in all fifty states, if not a felony (and in some states, after X driving on a suspended license misdemeanors it becomes a felony) - so it's not as simple as "cool, just keep fining me, I'll pay you eventually, maybe", and no other consequences.