5 ms·

>This is yet another argument against car centric city design. If there were debt-based suspensions of the right to ride public transport, would you categorize

>This is yet another argument against car centric city design. If there were debt-based suspensions of the right to ride public transport, would you categorize this as an argument against public transport centric city design? This is a plain ridiculous assertion. EDIT: the point here is that bad policy that involves something you happen to dislike doesn't lend strength to the viewpoint that the thing is bad. I mean, I happen not to like pitbull-type dogs, but I acknowledge that a putative law which prevented debtors from getting dog licenses would not be an argument against owning pitbulls.

foxyv 3y ago
You do not need a license to ride the bus or train. Just a couple bucks and a good book.
- NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
  You're continuing to miss the point. The license is an irrelevancy. If you can have your license suspended for <stupid reason> you can also be banned from public transport for <the same stupid reason>. Banning people from using transportation that they probably need for work is dumb, bad policy, and bad economics. It tells you nothing about the merits of the kind of transport from which they're being banned.
  - foxyv 3y ago
    Can you ban someone from walking to the store if it is less than a mile away? Or riding their bicycle to work if it is less than 4 miles away? If your government can do that, cars are not going to save you from the totalitarian dictatorship you are living under.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Be sure to let us know when people are barred from using public transportation because of unpaid child support.
    - vuln 3y ago
      It’s probably already happening in China with the Social Credit Score.
  - shiroiushi 3y ago
    >If you can have your license suspended for <stupid reason> you can also be banned from public transport for <the same stupid reason>. No, you can't. Please point to any places that actually have the technical means of enforcing such a ban.
    - nobody9999 3y ago
      >o, you can't. Please point to any places that actually have the technical means of enforcing such a ban. I'm not sure how such a ban might be implemented,as stupid as such a ban might be, but that doesn't stop folks from trying[0]. N.B.: The link below relates to banning folks who assault other folks on public transit and has nothing to do with fines/judgements. https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/03/08/concerns-rise-over-proposal-to-expand-ban-on-transit-use https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/03/08/concerns-ri...
      - shiroiushi 3y ago
        This argument makes about as much sense as claiming "they" might ban someone from eating spaghetti, and when challenged, responding "I'm not sure how such a ban might be implemented,as stupid as such a ban might be, but that doesn't stop folks from trying." Such a ban can't be practically enforced, and there's no indication anywhere of anyone even trying such a thing just to be mean to people. Your link is about someone who actually abused the public transit system (i.e. assaulting someone while riding), so of course being banned from the system is a normal response. Presumably, in such a case, the transit police might be watching for that person . It's much like bans on using computers for people convicted of certain computer-related crimes: it's a little hard to enforce, but these cases are unusual and they can check up on you and look for evidence you ignored the Court's punishment.
        nobody9999 3y ago
        >Presumably, in such a case, the transit police might be watching for that person And how might these hypothetical "transit police" do so, at least in New York City? There are 472 active subway stations spread across 36 subway lines and the trains run 24/7[0], carrying ~5,000,000 passengers per average weekday[1]. And since you can buy access tickets with cash or just evade the fare[2]. So, no. such a ban can't practically be enforced, but as I mentioned, it hasn't stopped some folks from trying...and failing. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway [1] https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-city-transit/subway-bus-ridership-2022 https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-city-transit/subway-bus... [2] https://archive.is/NDSbJ https://archive.is/NDSbJ
- seoulmetro 3y ago
  Licenses actually have nothing to do with the freedom of movement. Did you miss the whole "covid lockdown" period we just went through where governments restricted people from even leaving their homes on foot? Cars are great. Stop crying irrationally about them.
  - 2024throwaway 3y ago
    > Cars are great. Stop crying irrationally about them. Tell that to the countless people who lose friends and family to them every single day.
    - seoulmetro 3y ago
      And you think electricity and cities are bad too?
      - 2024throwaway 3y ago
        Look up “whataboutism”
        seoulmetro 3y ago
        Oh is that what you're trying to do? That explains a lot.
    - vuln 3y ago
      Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that die from high fructose corn syrup. Ca’mon man.
      - transitpilled 3y ago
        You don't need HFCS, you do need to get around. And in America, in 95% of places, that requires a car.
  - transitpilled 3y ago
    Imagine: you're at the end of a cul-de-sac, ten miles from anything you need like a grocery store or a doctor, and there's only one 55-70 mi/h road connecting them. Now imagine you also don't have a car. We don't even need government to restrict people's movement; car companies, 70 years of terrible land use policy, and good ol' fashioned NIMBYism did it for us.

foxyv 3y ago

You do not need a license to ride the bus or train. Just a couple bucks and a good book.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
You're continuing to miss the point. The license is an irrelevancy. If you can have your license suspended for <stupid reason> you can also be banned from public transport for <the same stupid reason>. Banning people from using transportation that they probably need for work is dumb, bad policy, and bad economics. It tells you nothing about the merits of the kind of transport from which they're being banned.
- foxyv 3y ago
  Can you ban someone from walking to the store if it is less than a mile away? Or riding their bicycle to work if it is less than 4 miles away? If your government can do that, cars are not going to save you from the totalitarian dictatorship you are living under.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Be sure to let us know when people are barred from using public transportation because of unpaid child support.
  - vuln 3y ago
    It’s probably already happening in China with the Social Credit Score.
- shiroiushi 3y ago
  >If you can have your license suspended for <stupid reason> you can also be banned from public transport for <the same stupid reason>. No, you can't. Please point to any places that actually have the technical means of enforcing such a ban.
  - nobody9999 3y ago
    >o, you can't. Please point to any places that actually have the technical means of enforcing such a ban. I'm not sure how such a ban might be implemented,as stupid as such a ban might be, but that doesn't stop folks from trying[0]. N.B.: The link below relates to banning folks who assault other folks on public transit and has nothing to do with fines/judgements. https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/03/08/concerns-rise-over-proposal-to-expand-ban-on-transit-use https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/03/08/concerns-ri...
    - shiroiushi 3y ago
      This argument makes about as much sense as claiming "they" might ban someone from eating spaghetti, and when challenged, responding "I'm not sure how such a ban might be implemented,as stupid as such a ban might be, but that doesn't stop folks from trying." Such a ban can't be practically enforced, and there's no indication anywhere of anyone even trying such a thing just to be mean to people. Your link is about someone who actually abused the public transit system (i.e. assaulting someone while riding), so of course being banned from the system is a normal response. Presumably, in such a case, the transit police might be watching for that person . It's much like bans on using computers for people convicted of certain computer-related crimes: it's a little hard to enforce, but these cases are unusual and they can check up on you and look for evidence you ignored the Court's punishment.
      - nobody9999 3y ago
        >Presumably, in such a case, the transit police might be watching for that person And how might these hypothetical "transit police" do so, at least in New York City? There are 472 active subway stations spread across 36 subway lines and the trains run 24/7[0], carrying ~5,000,000 passengers per average weekday[1]. And since you can buy access tickets with cash or just evade the fare[2]. So, no. such a ban can't practically be enforced, but as I mentioned, it hasn't stopped some folks from trying...and failing. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway [1] https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-city-transit/subway-bus-ridership-2022 https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-city-transit/subway-bus... [2] https://archive.is/NDSbJ https://archive.is/NDSbJ
seoulmetro 3y ago
Licenses actually have nothing to do with the freedom of movement. Did you miss the whole "covid lockdown" period we just went through where governments restricted people from even leaving their homes on foot? Cars are great. Stop crying irrationally about them.
- 2024throwaway 3y ago
  > Cars are great. Stop crying irrationally about them. Tell that to the countless people who lose friends and family to them every single day.
  - seoulmetro 3y ago
    And you think electricity and cities are bad too?
    - 2024throwaway 3y ago
      Look up “whataboutism”
      - seoulmetro 3y ago
        Oh is that what you're trying to do? That explains a lot.
  - vuln 3y ago
    Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that die from high fructose corn syrup. Ca’mon man.
    - transitpilled 3y ago
      You don't need HFCS, you do need to get around. And in America, in 95% of places, that requires a car.
- transitpilled 3y ago
  Imagine: you're at the end of a cul-de-sac, ten miles from anything you need like a grocery store or a doctor, and there's only one 55-70 mi/h road connecting them. Now imagine you also don't have a car. We don't even need government to restrict people's movement; car companies, 70 years of terrible land use policy, and good ol' fashioned NIMBYism did it for us.