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Do you enjoy pre-installed aware, shareware, demoware etc. in general? or is this only because it is Apple products and his is about? like having a demo versio

Do you enjoy pre-installed aware, shareware, demoware etc. in general? or is this only because it is Apple products and his is about? like having a demo version of Norton installed on your new PC. or having Facebook OEM installed with no way to remove it? you are the first one I have ever heard of, who actively encourages and enjoys that. impressive.

gleenn 3y ago
Honestly, hard disk space is cheap. The thing that bothers me is when e.g. Norton is naggy and pops up UIs to make me interact with it despite opting out over time. Things like the Photos app sit there and occupy space but zero percent of my brain and perhaps some gigs of storage I personally am not missing.
- concinds 3y ago
  The Apple Music app makes my 32GB iPad unusable. It takes up 10GB of my 32GB, despite having 0 songs downloaded. I have no idea what takes up that space (album art alone can't account for 10GB). There's no option to clear that "Documents & Data" cache in the "iPad Storage" settings menu. Uninstalling the Music app does not remove this data. I could reset the iPad but I can't be bothered. I'm also stuck with Safari because I can't afford Chrome's 200MB, and with Mail because the Gmail app is 500MB.
  - rmah 3y ago
    Something is very wrong with your iPad storage. My Apple Music (also mostly unused) takes up a grand total of 28 MB, of which 23.5 MB is the app.
- talldayo 3y ago
  > hard disk space is cheap Are we referring to the same Apple company right now?
- willmadden 3y ago
  >Honestly, hard disk space is cheap. Not on Apple's laptops. They also markup hundreds of dollars for +8 GB of RAM, which probably costs them 10-20 USD.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  in my opinion it is about controlling "what you have in your fridge". if I want to loose weight but cannot remove the chocolate from my fridge I am at the mercy of my supplier of fridges. it is the same here. if I don't want to spend time on Facebook, gambling, etc. then I should be able to clear away these types of apps from my system.
  - shuckles 3y ago
    It’s already possible to hide the Photos app from the system, so you are wrong on the facts. And the photos app is a lot more like the compressor in your fridge, not like the contents of it. But the point of reasoning by metaphor a lot of commenters on here employ is to obfuscate any assertions. So what do you think: should OS vendors not be allowed to supply default software beyond a kernel? The Settings app should also be customizable? And this is good for users how? Keeps them from getting fat?
    - madsbuch 3y ago
      > It’s already possible to hide the Photos app from the system. Like putting the chocolate underneath the broccolis in the vegetable container? You might argue that the photos app is required for normal functioning. And I would generally agree with you. However, you could use the same argument for a browser, but bundling Safari per default does not fly anymore. The time will show what we need to do. So far, IMHO, regulators are able to manage these nuances.
foooorsyth 3y ago
People buy Apple products because they don’t have that crap. What are you talking about? If there’s one company that DOESN’T bloat your computing device with worthless junk from third parties, it’s Apple.
rustcleaner 3y ago
It is extremely difficult to make someone understand something, when their salary depends on their not understanding it. This is HN and surveillance capitalism rules the internet, of course we will see commenters here whose wealth depend on it. Now I will garrison for the next brigade... :^)
phatskat 3y ago
This is apples to oranges - the stock Photos app isn’t shareware/demo ware etc. it’s a basic photo gallery app with a really solid search feature, and it integrates into the camera app just liked you’d expect on any other mobile OS. And just for both of you, you can indeed tap and hold the Photos app and then choose “Remove Application”. I’d be surprised if this did anything beyond hiding the app, and also the Photos app is completely innocuous imo. Norton preinstalled on a Windows XP machine is more like if your phone came with Weather Underground preinstalled.
- shuckles 3y ago
  The commenter apparently can't tell the difference between a best in class photo management app made by the creators of Aperature with bloatware. I don't fault them: most users can't either which is why giving them a "choice" is extremely overrated!
  - madsbuch 3y ago
    I am sure Norton also think they are best in class anti-virus software. and luckily we don't govern by My Opinion™.
    - shuckles 3y ago
      If Windows needs a best in class antivirus to use basic hardware features, it is pretty reasonable to bundle it in the OS!
shuckles 3y ago
Your reply is a non-sequitur bordering on rude. It is also ironic because the EU-mandated browser choice screen offers users such stalwart top browsers such as "Browser" by Maple Media Apps, LLC. a holding company for category leading apps, "Web@Work", and "You.com AI Search and Browse". Bloatware lovers rejoice!
- madsbuch 3y ago
  my comment might have sarcastic undertones, but it is definitely serious. I understand that the original commenter might not have thought thiur argument through and the implications of it. That is fair, that is why we debate.
  - shuckles 3y ago
    It’s not serious, as evidenced by nobody building an argument on your ridiculous comparison to bloatware. And the offensive part of it was not the poor, sarcastic metaphor but instead the fake indignation that someone could believe something different from you.
    - madsbuch 3y ago
      And you make yourself guilty of the exact same bad rhetorics here. Let's call it a day - it is OK to just let bad comments be and let them sink. Give them a down vote instead.
      - shuckles 3y ago
        No actually I think HN works best when people call out bad behavior. Your original comment violates every other guideline for behavior in comments, most notably: > Be kind. Don’t be snarky. Converse curiously. > Please respond to the strongest possible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that’s easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
        madsbuch 3y ago

gleenn 3y ago

Honestly, hard disk space is cheap. The thing that bothers me is when e.g. Norton is naggy and pops up UIs to make me interact with it despite opting out over time. Things like the Photos app sit there and occupy space but zero percent of my brain and perhaps some gigs of storage I personally am not missing.

concinds 3y ago
The Apple Music app makes my 32GB iPad unusable. It takes up 10GB of my 32GB, despite having 0 songs downloaded. I have no idea what takes up that space (album art alone can't account for 10GB). There's no option to clear that "Documents & Data" cache in the "iPad Storage" settings menu. Uninstalling the Music app does not remove this data. I could reset the iPad but I can't be bothered. I'm also stuck with Safari because I can't afford Chrome's 200MB, and with Mail because the Gmail app is 500MB.
- rmah 3y ago
  Something is very wrong with your iPad storage. My Apple Music (also mostly unused) takes up a grand total of 28 MB, of which 23.5 MB is the app.
talldayo 3y ago
> hard disk space is cheap Are we referring to the same Apple company right now?
willmadden 3y ago
>Honestly, hard disk space is cheap. Not on Apple's laptops. They also markup hundreds of dollars for +8 GB of RAM, which probably costs them 10-20 USD.
madsbuch 3y ago
in my opinion it is about controlling "what you have in your fridge". if I want to loose weight but cannot remove the chocolate from my fridge I am at the mercy of my supplier of fridges. it is the same here. if I don't want to spend time on Facebook, gambling, etc. then I should be able to clear away these types of apps from my system.
- shuckles 3y ago
  It’s already possible to hide the Photos app from the system, so you are wrong on the facts. And the photos app is a lot more like the compressor in your fridge, not like the contents of it. But the point of reasoning by metaphor a lot of commenters on here employ is to obfuscate any assertions. So what do you think: should OS vendors not be allowed to supply default software beyond a kernel? The Settings app should also be customizable? And this is good for users how? Keeps them from getting fat?
  - madsbuch 3y ago
    > It’s already possible to hide the Photos app from the system. Like putting the chocolate underneath the broccolis in the vegetable container? You might argue that the photos app is required for normal functioning. And I would generally agree with you. However, you could use the same argument for a browser, but bundling Safari per default does not fly anymore. The time will show what we need to do. So far, IMHO, regulators are able to manage these nuances.

foooorsyth 3y ago

People buy Apple products because they don’t have that crap. What are you talking about? If there’s one company that DOESN’T bloat your computing device with worthless junk from third parties, it’s Apple.

rustcleaner 3y ago

It is extremely difficult to make someone understand something, when their salary depends on their not understanding it. This is HN and surveillance capitalism rules the internet, of course we will see commenters here whose wealth depend on it. Now I will garrison for the next brigade... :^)

phatskat 3y ago

This is apples to oranges - the stock Photos app isn’t shareware/demo ware etc. it’s a basic photo gallery app with a really solid search feature, and it integrates into the camera app just liked you’d expect on any other mobile OS. And just for both of you, you can indeed tap and hold the Photos app and then choose “Remove Application”. I’d be surprised if this did anything beyond hiding the app, and also the Photos app is completely innocuous imo. Norton preinstalled on a Windows XP machine is more like if your phone came with Weather Underground preinstalled.

shuckles 3y ago
The commenter apparently can't tell the difference between a best in class photo management app made by the creators of Aperature with bloatware. I don't fault them: most users can't either which is why giving them a "choice" is extremely overrated!
- madsbuch 3y ago
  I am sure Norton also think they are best in class anti-virus software. and luckily we don't govern by My Opinion™.
  - shuckles 3y ago
    If Windows needs a best in class antivirus to use basic hardware features, it is pretty reasonable to bundle it in the OS!

shuckles 3y ago

Your reply is a non-sequitur bordering on rude. It is also ironic because the EU-mandated browser choice screen offers users such stalwart top browsers such as "Browser" by Maple Media Apps, LLC. a holding company for category leading apps, "Web@Work", and "You.com AI Search and Browse". Bloatware lovers rejoice!

madsbuch 3y ago
my comment might have sarcastic undertones, but it is definitely serious. I understand that the original commenter might not have thought thiur argument through and the implications of it. That is fair, that is why we debate.
- shuckles 3y ago
  It’s not serious, as evidenced by nobody building an argument on your ridiculous comparison to bloatware. And the offensive part of it was not the poor, sarcastic metaphor but instead the fake indignation that someone could believe something different from you.
  - madsbuch 3y ago
    And you make yourself guilty of the exact same bad rhetorics here. Let's call it a day - it is OK to just let bad comments be and let them sink. Give them a down vote instead.
    - shuckles 3y ago
      No actually I think HN works best when people call out bad behavior. Your original comment violates every other guideline for behavior in comments, most notably: > Be kind. Don’t be snarky. Converse curiously. > Please respond to the strongest possible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that’s easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
      - madsbuch 3y ago