4 ms·

"Select every tile with motorcycles", shows an image of a single motorcycle parked on the street. Does the sliver of a tire that shows up in the bottom right ti

by kedean 3y ago

"Select every tile with motorcycles", shows an image of a single motorcycle parked on the street. Does the sliver of a tire that shows up in the bottom right tile count, or not? This is never clear, and I end up usually getting it wrong until they show me one that's unambiguous.

ghayes 3y ago
I have never successfully gotten a “click all motorcycle squares” to succeed. With a VPN, nothing usually works until “click until there are no more X.” It’s so consistent that I’m pretty sure it’s designed that way, since the final task is time-gated.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  > With a VPN, nothing usually works until [...] Bots are very likely to use VPNs, so captcha services make things a real pain in the ass for anyone connecting from a VPN. It's the same story with Tor. Coming from a VPN/Tor is a strong signal that you're more likely to be a malicious user.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    I'm guessing they also use failed CAPTCHA statistics as more "proof" that those users are malicious. How much should we bet that each time I fail a CAPTCHA because it's utter shit, and happen to be on a VPN, somebody somewhere counts it as a "blocked bot" or "blocked attack"? I guess I don't want to know as it will probably make me angry.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  ReCaptcha will serve you impossible captchas (as in it will always behave as incorrect even if the answer is correct) if it doesn't like you.
arprocter 3y ago
I've had 'click all the lettuces' - it told me I was wrong for not clicking on a cabbage
- hunter2_ 3y ago
  It's not comparing your response to some hard truth, it's comparing your response to a typical response. Sort of like how LLMs dish stuff out based on what's probable, not based on hard truth. So when you fail, it's not really saying you're wrong, it's saying you're not like most.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    I'm not helping. I always try to get a few wrong just to screw with their training.
whitehexagon 3y ago
The last time I got blocked by captcha I went through a dozen of them in a row before being told I wasnt human enough (possibly true after 30 years in IT!) and so on principal I reject all websites that include captcha. And anyway, why are we training these image recognition tools for free.
- Sabinus 3y ago
  Were you trying to access archive.is using the CloudFlare DNS resolvers?
  - hedora 3y ago
    I used to have an internet connection from a small ISP that used carrier grade nat. Same issue. I think most of these captcha systems basically just look at IP or other reputation, and then make end-users do mechanical turk style work for free. Someday, I'm hoping some sociologists look for evidence of socioeconomic discrimination in captcha implementations. In my experience, performing the exact same actions with your mouse in Mountain View leads to a completely different outcome than it does in lower income areas (red-voting white, ethnic minorities, etc) surrounding the Bay Area.
jerf 3y ago
"This is never clear, and I end up usually getting it wrong until they show me one that's unambiguous." While those CAPTCHAs present a surface narrative of you having to get the problem correct, that's not how they really work. After all, it's not like they are creating those problems by hand. They're pushing the images through computers. You don't even know that what the CAPTCHA server considers correct is even close to objectively correct. Really it's just a hook to engage you to collect a wide variety of streams to try to detect whether or not you are a human, like reaction speeds, how the mouse moves, etc. The correctness of your selection is only one small signal, and not even necessarily a large one. The answer is, stop overthinking it. Your overthinking it is probably sending a signal that you're not a human because it's got all your timings wrong. Do what most humans do: Halfassedly click at the problem until it seems rightish and then click "Submit". Does the sliver of tire that shows up in the bottom right tile count? The human response to that question is "Who cares you dumb computer let me through to the content already", so, to maximize how human you look to the algorithm, channel your fellow human's feelings. If you feel frustrated at the CAPTCHA problem and wiggle your mouse angrily and maybe overshoot some of the squares you mean to click, so much the better and more human looking.
- xk_id 3y ago
  a tutorial on how to be human on internet
  - jerf 3y ago
    Putting Expert Human on my resume now, thanks.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Interesting, I guess this explains why I can never "solve" the damn things on my desktop. I use an Ultimate Hacking Keyboard which has a mouse layer, so I control the mouse cursor with my keyboard. It means that my mouse always travels in either perfectly horizontal, perfectly vertical, or perfectly diagonal patterns, and at very different timings than a human using a traditional mouse would. But, it pisses me off to no end that I can't use my fucking keyboard the way it is supposed to be used (which is a far superior design to the "normal" setup) to view some websites because it doesn't "look" human to the fucking server who expects me not to be a statistical outlier. As someone who has always been an outlier, I kind of hate the algorithmic future we live in and are headed even further toward. This is why we can't have nice things.
darepublic 3y ago
On these captchas I used to sweat it but now I just think "fuck it" and don't overthink anything. And I always pass, perhaps for a variety of reasons secondary to the actual tiles selected

by kedean 3y ago

ghayes 3y ago

I have never successfully gotten a “click all motorcycle squares” to succeed. With a VPN, nothing usually works until “click until there are no more X.” It’s so consistent that I’m pretty sure it’s designed that way, since the final task is time-gated.

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
> With a VPN, nothing usually works until [...] Bots are very likely to use VPNs, so captcha services make things a real pain in the ass for anyone connecting from a VPN. It's the same story with Tor. Coming from a VPN/Tor is a strong signal that you're more likely to be a malicious user.
- freedomben 3y ago
  I'm guessing they also use failed CAPTCHA statistics as more "proof" that those users are malicious. How much should we bet that each time I fail a CAPTCHA because it's utter shit, and happen to be on a VPN, somebody somewhere counts it as a "blocked bot" or "blocked attack"? I guess I don't want to know as it will probably make me angry.
Nextgrid 3y ago
ReCaptcha will serve you impossible captchas (as in it will always behave as incorrect even if the answer is correct) if it doesn't like you.

arprocter 3y ago

I've had 'click all the lettuces' - it told me I was wrong for not clicking on a cabbage

hunter2_ 3y ago
It's not comparing your response to some hard truth, it's comparing your response to a typical response. Sort of like how LLMs dish stuff out based on what's probable, not based on hard truth. So when you fail, it's not really saying you're wrong, it's saying you're not like most.
- autoexec 3y ago
  I'm not helping. I always try to get a few wrong just to screw with their training.

whitehexagon 3y ago

The last time I got blocked by captcha I went through a dozen of them in a row before being told I wasnt human enough (possibly true after 30 years in IT!) and so on principal I reject all websites that include captcha. And anyway, why are we training these image recognition tools for free.

Sabinus 3y ago
Were you trying to access archive.is using the CloudFlare DNS resolvers?
- hedora 3y ago
  I used to have an internet connection from a small ISP that used carrier grade nat. Same issue. I think most of these captcha systems basically just look at IP or other reputation, and then make end-users do mechanical turk style work for free. Someday, I'm hoping some sociologists look for evidence of socioeconomic discrimination in captcha implementations. In my experience, performing the exact same actions with your mouse in Mountain View leads to a completely different outcome than it does in lower income areas (red-voting white, ethnic minorities, etc) surrounding the Bay Area.

jerf 3y ago

"This is never clear, and I end up usually getting it wrong until they show me one that's unambiguous." While those CAPTCHAs present a surface narrative of you having to get the problem correct, that's not how they really work. After all, it's not like they are creating those problems by hand. They're pushing the images through computers. You don't even know that what the CAPTCHA server considers correct is even close to objectively correct. Really it's just a hook to engage you to collect a wide variety of streams to try to detect whether or not you are a human, like reaction speeds, how the mouse moves, etc. The correctness of your selection is only one small signal, and not even necessarily a large one. The answer is, stop overthinking it. Your overthinking it is probably sending a signal that you're not a human because it's got all your timings wrong. Do what most humans do: Halfassedly click at the problem until it seems rightish and then click "Submit". Does the sliver of tire that shows up in the bottom right tile count? The human response to that question is "Who cares you dumb computer let me through to the content already", so, to maximize how human you look to the algorithm, channel your fellow human's feelings. If you feel frustrated at the CAPTCHA problem and wiggle your mouse angrily and maybe overshoot some of the squares you mean to click, so much the better and more human looking.

xk_id 3y ago
a tutorial on how to be human on internet
- jerf 3y ago
  Putting Expert Human on my resume now, thanks.
freedomben 3y ago
Interesting, I guess this explains why I can never "solve" the damn things on my desktop. I use an Ultimate Hacking Keyboard which has a mouse layer, so I control the mouse cursor with my keyboard. It means that my mouse always travels in either perfectly horizontal, perfectly vertical, or perfectly diagonal patterns, and at very different timings than a human using a traditional mouse would. But, it pisses me off to no end that I can't use my fucking keyboard the way it is supposed to be used (which is a far superior design to the "normal" setup) to view some websites because it doesn't "look" human to the fucking server who expects me not to be a statistical outlier. As someone who has always been an outlier, I kind of hate the algorithmic future we live in and are headed even further toward. This is why we can't have nice things.

darepublic 3y ago

On these captchas I used to sweat it but now I just think "fuck it" and don't overthink anything. And I always pass, perhaps for a variety of reasons secondary to the actual tiles selected