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Different aspects of cognition may be measurable to a useful extent, but the rest isn't that straightforward. Philosophers still argue about what consciousness

Different aspects of cognition may be measurable to a useful extent, but the rest isn't that straightforward. Philosophers still argue about what consciousness even is at the most fundamental level, so quantifying that is not happening. Creativity is just as much about the volatile and fickle relationships among context, inspiration, stimuli, motivation, experience, emotional state at a very granular (likely imperceptible) level, etc. as it is about somewhat measurable things like abstract reasoning. You'd have to be able to look in two different dimensions– one where someone generated creative output having used a psychedelic and one generating the same creative output not having used it to see anything close to an accurate split, and even then, creativity is so subjective that it wouldn't prove much. Like many psychoactive substances, there are probably complex context-dependent trade-offs for the cognition, and when it comes to creative utility, they probably don't affect the process like someone would expect. Perception is relative; some senses may appear heightened (e.g. sense of taste with marijuana use,) when in reality, other competing stimuli are slightly muted. While that would be very consequential in quantitative cognitive measurements, the distinction is probably irrelevant in creative processes. If we didn't have an accurate way to measure sleep, someone would probably declare white noise machines bunk because noise interrupts sleep and they actually make your environment noisier. Of course, through engineering, generative AI will surely save us from this burden of terribly ambiguous and inconvenient humanity by amalgamating existing humanity and extrapolating/interpolating based on a handful of plain text, so that's... great?

aredox 3y ago
Creativity is difficult to measure in the lab, but if taking LSD was a game changer, you'd see a majority of creative workers taking LSD the same way Adderall & co are massively used (there and elsewhere - anywhere where staying more time awake and alert allows you to pull ahead). Yet I don't see it: most LSD usage works the same way as absinthe or opium used to be used: as a crutch for creatives suffering a dry spell, with the user feeling improvement - but the public, critics, "consumers" of the creative product not really seeing it. (Usually the crutch becomes an addiction, or the toxicity/impurities in the product take their toll, and you end up with a coda like at the end of PK Dick's _A Scanner Darkly_) What I find most specific to LSD though is that it seems to have produced a long list of LSD advocates, whose work consists only of waxing poetics about how "LSD gives you mental superpowers", and... Not much else. No actual "general" poetry, no Great Text, no theoretical breakthrough in philosophy nor science...)
- chefandy 3y ago
  > Creativity is difficult to measure in the lab, but if taking LSD was a game changer, you'd see a majority of creative workers taking LSD the same way Adderall & co are massively used (there and elsewhere - anywhere where staying more time awake and alert allows you to pull ahead). Firstly, showing up to work on acid is very different than showing up to work on Adderall. The impact on someone's ability to function normally is incomparable. Secondly, working faster to solve problems is not even close to doing things like honing someone's artistic perception in their medium, and having the mental material to manifest abstract concepts. Many of the benefits people reap from hallucinogens are experiential and could influence someone decades later, like travel or something they read. > Yet I don't see it: most LSD usage works the same way as absinthe or opium used to be used: as a crutch for creatives suffering a dry spell, with the user feeling improvement - but the public, critics, "consumers" of the creative product not really seeing it. I am a professional art-school trained artist who almost certainly knows many more successful artists than you do: you're either making things up to justify your existing opinion, or you don't know enough about the topic to realize you're making things up. The preponderance of dedicated professional artists and designers I know (on the artier end of the spectrum) have at least dabbled in hallucinogens. Personally, I have not. If you include marijuana, even though that's far more like Adderall in its usage patterns, that number is nearly 100%. Almost none of that drug usage, from what I've seen, is used in direct response to needing inspiration. Of course, none of this is universal, but to say it's not common or influential because you are not aware of many people that are working while tripping is utterly ridiculous. > (Usually the crutch becomes an addiction, or the toxicity/impurities in the product take their toll, and you end up with a coda like at the end of PK Dick's _A Scanner Darkly_) Ah-- that you're basing at least some of your conclusions on fiction certainly fills in some holes. > What I find most specific to LSD though is that it seems to have produced a long list of LSD advocates, whose work consists only of waxing poetics about how "LSD gives you mental superpowers", and... Not much else. No actual "general" poetry, no Great Text, no theoretical breakthrough in philosophy nor science...) You can find bullshit artists peddling damned near anything for their own benefit, and hallucinogens are one of the worst offenders. That's not an argument against the efficacy of anything. And to be clear, I'm not advocating for anything. Neither for hallucinogen usage, nor abstinence.

aredox 3y ago

Creativity is difficult to measure in the lab, but if taking LSD was a game changer, you'd see a majority of creative workers taking LSD the same way Adderall & co are massively used (there and elsewhere - anywhere where staying more time awake and alert allows you to pull ahead). Yet I don't see it: most LSD usage works the same way as absinthe or opium used to be used: as a crutch for creatives suffering a dry spell, with the user feeling improvement - but the public, critics, "consumers" of the creative product not really seeing it. (Usually the crutch becomes an addiction, or the toxicity/impurities in the product take their toll, and you end up with a coda like at the end of PK Dick's _A Scanner Darkly_) What I find most specific to LSD though is that it seems to have produced a long list of LSD advocates, whose work consists only of waxing poetics about how "LSD gives you mental superpowers", and... Not much else. No actual "general" poetry, no Great Text, no theoretical breakthrough in philosophy nor science...)

chefandy 3y ago
> Creativity is difficult to measure in the lab, but if taking LSD was a game changer, you'd see a majority of creative workers taking LSD the same way Adderall & co are massively used (there and elsewhere - anywhere where staying more time awake and alert allows you to pull ahead). Firstly, showing up to work on acid is very different than showing up to work on Adderall. The impact on someone's ability to function normally is incomparable. Secondly, working faster to solve problems is not even close to doing things like honing someone's artistic perception in their medium, and having the mental material to manifest abstract concepts. Many of the benefits people reap from hallucinogens are experiential and could influence someone decades later, like travel or something they read. > Yet I don't see it: most LSD usage works the same way as absinthe or opium used to be used: as a crutch for creatives suffering a dry spell, with the user feeling improvement - but the public, critics, "consumers" of the creative product not really seeing it. I am a professional art-school trained artist who almost certainly knows many more successful artists than you do: you're either making things up to justify your existing opinion, or you don't know enough about the topic to realize you're making things up. The preponderance of dedicated professional artists and designers I know (on the artier end of the spectrum) have at least dabbled in hallucinogens. Personally, I have not. If you include marijuana, even though that's far more like Adderall in its usage patterns, that number is nearly 100%. Almost none of that drug usage, from what I've seen, is used in direct response to needing inspiration. Of course, none of this is universal, but to say it's not common or influential because you are not aware of many people that are working while tripping is utterly ridiculous. > (Usually the crutch becomes an addiction, or the toxicity/impurities in the product take their toll, and you end up with a coda like at the end of PK Dick's _A Scanner Darkly_) Ah-- that you're basing at least some of your conclusions on fiction certainly fills in some holes. > What I find most specific to LSD though is that it seems to have produced a long list of LSD advocates, whose work consists only of waxing poetics about how "LSD gives you mental superpowers", and... Not much else. No actual "general" poetry, no Great Text, no theoretical breakthrough in philosophy nor science...) You can find bullshit artists peddling damned near anything for their own benefit, and hallucinogens are one of the worst offenders. That's not an argument against the efficacy of anything. And to be clear, I'm not advocating for anything. Neither for hallucinogen usage, nor abstinence.