3 ms·

Apple’s revenue was over 100B last quarter (https://valustox.com/AAPL https://valustox.com/AAPL) and about 380B over the past four quarters. Looks like they ma

Apple’s revenue was over 100B last quarter (https://valustox.com/AAPL https://valustox.com/AAPL) and about 380B over the past four quarters. Looks like they make about 30% of that in Europe. Sounds like about 80% of their headaches come from Europe. If they get fined 10% of 380B, and the EU becomes ever more fine-happy, it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe. As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend.

gambiting 3y ago
>>it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe If the alternative is breaking EU rules - great. Let's see that happen. >>As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend. It's hard to see why a country(well in this case a group of countries) would want to do good for their own citizens? I guess in some places of the world that is indeed a very novel and unexpected thing.
- FredPret 3y ago
  Economic and technological isolation is what's best for the people of the EU? Because that's the downside here.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    I don't understand - using apple products is some kind of blessing from the gods and without them Europe is now going to be in "technological isolation"? Get real for a second - apple devices are luxury and if Apple pulled out of EU tomorrow the only losing side in that equation would be apple. No idea why we'd be in economic isolation because of that either. Is our trading of general goods with US reliant on Europeans buying iPhones?
    - FredPret 3y ago
      Each little anti-business decision is a multiplier on the previous one. For a long time, nothing happens. Next thing you know, your economy is half the size it could have been. About 15 years ago, the US and EU economies were actually the same size. Since then, the US almost doubled, and the EU is literally stuck at the same size. Why should Europeans be so much worse off? Surely they deserve better - more money, more options? Furthermore, this is clearly part of a larger pattern of targeting big US tech companies. This isn't endearing the EU to business and political leaders in the US.
      - gambiting 3y ago
        >>Furthermore, this is clearly part of a larger pattern of targeting big US tech companies. Because big US tech companies are playing fast and lose with the consumer rights and privacy of our data that we as Europeans have come to expect. If a German or French company was breaking the rules in that way I would also expect them to be treated the exact same way and fined into oblivion. >>This isn't endearing the EU to business and political leaders in the US. I will take protection of consumers over "endearing" ourselves to businesses and political leaders in the US. Your business practices do not trump our expectations as society - but you wouldn't expect any less from foreign companies doing business in US, so why is this surprising? US is constantly introducing tariffs regulations and fines for foreign companies doing business on its soil, because you want foreign business to play by your rules. But when someone does it to you it's suddenly going to collapse our economy? >>Surely they deserve better They do, that's the entire point.
        FredPret 3y ago
        This is completely fair - you have to play by the local rules to be in that economy. But my point is that if those rules become really onerous, then people might calculate that it's better to not play. The best thing is to be the one who invents a new industry, but from over here it seems the big focus over there is not innovation, but regulation. I'm not saying the European economy would ever collapse, I'm saying it suffers from things like this. It's good now, but could have been wonderful.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    No worries, we can erect the Great Firewall of Europe if need comes to be. Apple doesn't seem to have any issue with that.
InsomniacL 3y ago
> If they get fined 10% of 380B, and the EU becomes ever more fine-happy, it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe. Surely compliance with the law is more profitable then stopping trading.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
  > Surely compliance with the law is more profitable then stopping trading. Well, that's the rational point-of-view, yes. ...but the most surprising thing to me to come out of this whole thing was how Epic Games was given the same choice w.r.t. Apple's App Store in-app-purchasing rules, but they decided to do the very irrational thing and sacrifice 100% of their income from their iOS players by being banned from the App Store instead of complying with Apple's "law". I'm still trying to understand what went through Epic's leadership. They can argue it was over a moral principle, but their case (at the time) was so weak it made them look worse than Apple in my eyes. It's like if Epic was Rosa Parks, but if she sat at the front of the bus in order to give a timeshare sales presentation to the other riders.
kuon 3y ago
While it might be factually true (I actually have no idea about the numbers), this is very cynical.
marcyb5st 3y ago
I don't think it's ever gonna happen. 30% of 380 is ~120B. If they get the full fine, they will still get ~(120 - 38)B which makes that price of doing business instead of an "headache".
imacomputer 3y ago
Maybe they will pull out of Europe then, but laws are laws and businesses must comply. Whether those lose make sense is another issue. > As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend. This isn't a trade war, there is no competition the EU is trying to bolster. The way I see it they are just being assertive about their market rules, which is refreshing considering other regions tend to get walked over.
- FredPret 3y ago
  You have to out-invent, out-sell, and out-implement your economic rivals. You can't out-regulate them, because if you create an economic island with nothing but strict regulations, there's no strong incentive for the rest of the world to connect with that island. Now, if EU regulations created an amazing place to live where everybody's inventing and implementing the future, that would be great. (And the EU does have lots of common-sense regulations with a high return on investment). The best way to set the tone of the future is to build it yourself, not complain about what someone else built.
  - imacomputer 3y ago
    > You have to out-invent, out-sell, and out-implement your economic rivals No you don't have to. Why is globalism a necessity? We work to live, not live to work. We are pushing each other for economic growth so hard our population is starting to decline for "the hustle". > The best way to set the tone of the future is to build it yourself, not complain about what someone else built. Straw man? I'm not against innovation or the success of others. Why do you like being abused by large international organizations? :)
pjmlp 3y ago
In the days of global trade wars that friend is no longer the friend it used to be, specially if voters decide Trump is a president worth having after everything that went down.

gambiting 3y ago

>>it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe If the alternative is breaking EU rules - great. Let's see that happen. >>As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend. It's hard to see why a country(well in this case a group of countries) would want to do good for their own citizens? I guess in some places of the world that is indeed a very novel and unexpected thing.

FredPret 3y ago
Economic and technological isolation is what's best for the people of the EU? Because that's the downside here.
- gambiting 3y ago
  I don't understand - using apple products is some kind of blessing from the gods and without them Europe is now going to be in "technological isolation"? Get real for a second - apple devices are luxury and if Apple pulled out of EU tomorrow the only losing side in that equation would be apple. No idea why we'd be in economic isolation because of that either. Is our trading of general goods with US reliant on Europeans buying iPhones?
  - FredPret 3y ago
    Each little anti-business decision is a multiplier on the previous one. For a long time, nothing happens. Next thing you know, your economy is half the size it could have been. About 15 years ago, the US and EU economies were actually the same size. Since then, the US almost doubled, and the EU is literally stuck at the same size. Why should Europeans be so much worse off? Surely they deserve better - more money, more options? Furthermore, this is clearly part of a larger pattern of targeting big US tech companies. This isn't endearing the EU to business and political leaders in the US.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      >>Furthermore, this is clearly part of a larger pattern of targeting big US tech companies. Because big US tech companies are playing fast and lose with the consumer rights and privacy of our data that we as Europeans have come to expect. If a German or French company was breaking the rules in that way I would also expect them to be treated the exact same way and fined into oblivion. >>This isn't endearing the EU to business and political leaders in the US. I will take protection of consumers over "endearing" ourselves to businesses and political leaders in the US. Your business practices do not trump our expectations as society - but you wouldn't expect any less from foreign companies doing business in US, so why is this surprising? US is constantly introducing tariffs regulations and fines for foreign companies doing business on its soil, because you want foreign business to play by your rules. But when someone does it to you it's suddenly going to collapse our economy? >>Surely they deserve better They do, that's the entire point.
      - FredPret 3y ago
        This is completely fair - you have to play by the local rules to be in that economy. But my point is that if those rules become really onerous, then people might calculate that it's better to not play. The best thing is to be the one who invents a new industry, but from over here it seems the big focus over there is not innovation, but regulation. I'm not saying the European economy would ever collapse, I'm saying it suffers from things like this. It's good now, but could have been wonderful.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  No worries, we can erect the Great Firewall of Europe if need comes to be. Apple doesn't seem to have any issue with that.

InsomniacL 3y ago

> If they get fined 10% of 380B, and the EU becomes ever more fine-happy, it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe. Surely compliance with the law is more profitable then stopping trading.

DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
> Surely compliance with the law is more profitable then stopping trading. Well, that's the rational point-of-view, yes. ...but the most surprising thing to me to come out of this whole thing was how Epic Games was given the same choice w.r.t. Apple's App Store in-app-purchasing rules, but they decided to do the very irrational thing and sacrifice 100% of their income from their iOS players by being banned from the App Store instead of complying with Apple's "law". I'm still trying to understand what went through Epic's leadership. They can argue it was over a moral principle, but their case (at the time) was so weak it made them look worse than Apple in my eyes. It's like if Epic was Rosa Parks, but if she sat at the front of the bus in order to give a timeshare sales presentation to the other riders.

kuon 3y ago

While it might be factually true (I actually have no idea about the numbers), this is very cynical.

marcyb5st 3y ago

I don't think it's ever gonna happen. 30% of 380 is ~120B. If they get the full fine, they will still get ~(120 - 38)B which makes that price of doing business instead of an "headache".

imacomputer 3y ago

Maybe they will pull out of Europe then, but laws are laws and businesses must comply. Whether those lose make sense is another issue. > As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend. This isn't a trade war, there is no competition the EU is trying to bolster. The way I see it they are just being assertive about their market rules, which is refreshing considering other regions tend to get walked over.

FredPret 3y ago
You have to out-invent, out-sell, and out-implement your economic rivals. You can't out-regulate them, because if you create an economic island with nothing but strict regulations, there's no strong incentive for the rest of the world to connect with that island. Now, if EU regulations created an amazing place to live where everybody's inventing and implementing the future, that would be great. (And the EU does have lots of common-sense regulations with a high return on investment). The best way to set the tone of the future is to build it yourself, not complain about what someone else built.
- imacomputer 3y ago
  > You have to out-invent, out-sell, and out-implement your economic rivals No you don't have to. Why is globalism a necessity? We work to live, not live to work. We are pushing each other for economic growth so hard our population is starting to decline for "the hustle". > The best way to set the tone of the future is to build it yourself, not complain about what someone else built. Straw man? I'm not against innovation or the success of others. Why do you like being abused by large international organizations? :)

pjmlp 3y ago

In the days of global trade wars that friend is no longer the friend it used to be, specially if voters decide Trump is a president worth having after everything that went down.