7 ms·

Imagine how much time will be wasted to comply with crazy demands like making the Photos app uninstallable which help basically nobody.

trompetenaccoun 3y ago
The EU has long lost the plot with all the bureaucracy and rules. People like it when the government cracks down on powerful corporations, not understanding that the government apparatus is the most powerful and dangerous institution of them all. I'm not fully against that part of the DMA, breaking up these walled gardens could be positive. But history has shown once they start meddling with the markets, governments rarely know when to stop. That's because people in positions of power generally think they're in control and know what they're doing. Look at the recent bottle cap directive for a more insane example. There are sadly hundreds of such cases at this point and the number of rules keeps growing year by year. Doing business in the EU will become more and more difficult and especially the cost for starting a new business is growing massively because of what needs to get invested in compliance before you even get started. This will be devastating for innovation and their economy as a whole.
- yokoprime 3y ago
  I’m sorry, but what was that? The economy will collapse due to bottle cap directives? You know that these arguments have been thrown around by anti-EU interests since the 90s and its never ever panned out
  - sweeter 3y ago
    "step off the multi-billion dollar corporation, bully!" seriously though, it never ceases to amaze me the level people repeat corporate propaganda and conflate corporate success with their own self-worth. These companies literally spend billions in lobbying the government to "influence" their decisions and run rigorous ad campaigns that smear any sentiment that isn't vehemently pro-billionaire, pro-corpoate, pro big-tech etc... so its not all that surprising that people fall for it but it is truly astounding.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      > conflate corporate success with their own self-worth I think that's what happens when you become a stockholder.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  > not understanding that the government apparatus is the most powerful and dangerous institution of them all OK, but we can vote government out at regular intervals, meanwhile we're supposed to just accept anything corporations do because... they're not government? Cherry picking and misrepresenting EU regulations doesn't make your argument any clearer. But where your argument really fails is that you don't really have one beyond ideological claptrap, taken solely on faith, or perhaps with specious arguments about out of control government and how markets and corporations are innately good and cannot be "interfered" with, lest the economy and "innovation" collapse. Please give us all a break. Business don't get started and fail not because of government regulation, but because of huge corporations that crush competition, withhold access, promote incompatibility, etc. They use their size to ignore regulation and warp markets to their benefit. Of course not all corporations are bad but some are, and that's why we have regulations.
madsbuch 3y ago
Do you enjoy pre-installed aware, shareware, demoware etc. in general? or is this only because it is Apple products and his is about? like having a demo version of Norton installed on your new PC. or having Facebook OEM installed with no way to remove it? you are the first one I have ever heard of, who actively encourages and enjoys that. impressive.
- gleenn 3y ago
  Honestly, hard disk space is cheap. The thing that bothers me is when e.g. Norton is naggy and pops up UIs to make me interact with it despite opting out over time. Things like the Photos app sit there and occupy space but zero percent of my brain and perhaps some gigs of storage I personally am not missing.
  - concinds 3y ago
    The Apple Music app makes my 32GB iPad unusable. It takes up 10GB of my 32GB, despite having 0 songs downloaded. I have no idea what takes up that space (album art alone can't account for 10GB). There's no option to clear that "Documents & Data" cache in the "iPad Storage" settings menu. Uninstalling the Music app does not remove this data. I could reset the iPad but I can't be bothered. I'm also stuck with Safari because I can't afford Chrome's 200MB, and with Mail because the Gmail app is 500MB.
    - rmah 3y ago
      Something is very wrong with your iPad storage. My Apple Music (also mostly unused) takes up a grand total of 28 MB, of which 23.5 MB is the app.
  - talldayo 3y ago
    > hard disk space is cheap Are we referring to the same Apple company right now?
  - willmadden 3y ago
    >Honestly, hard disk space is cheap. Not on Apple's laptops. They also markup hundreds of dollars for +8 GB of RAM, which probably costs them 10-20 USD.
__alexs 3y ago
Imagine how much time could have been saved if they had just made Photos a normal app from the beginning?
- shuckles 3y ago
  In reality it would play out a lot more like the Web Apps episode: if the barrier to entry for any new idea was it had to meet the EU's extensive list of arbitrary rules, most new ideas would never be realized. I guess it's time saved, but not in the sense you think.
- st3fan 3y ago
  You can uninstall the photos app. And reinstall it from the App Store via https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/photos/id1584215428 https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/photos/id1584215428 Or you can install a completely alternative app to manage your photos. The only thing iOS does in that case is provide the “Album” functionality.
  - shuckles 3y ago
    I think you can hide it but not uninstall it. My understanding is the EU's objection is that Photos app still provides the default photo picker functionality when the app is gone; and they'd like Google Photos to satisfy that role if a user prefers. Of course, the EU's approach here is to be coy about what it wants and only make it explicit alongside a headline-grabbing fine.
noapologies 3y ago
Please do tell us more about why the Photos "app" is unique and wasn't uninstallable to begin with, surely it's not a business decision made explicitly to increase vendor lock-in and introduce friction to consumer choice (like the rest of the Apple suite of "apps").
- shuckles 3y ago
  Are you seriously asking why Apple offers its users a built-in app to view the photos taken with their phone? You'd prefer if users had to choose and install a photo management app before they could take a picture?
  - noapologies 3y ago
    > Are you seriously asking why Apple offers its users a built-in app ... As you may have already read in my comment, I'm asking why it wasn't uninstallable to begin with.
    - shuckles 3y ago
      The burden of proof is on the people requesting the feature. The reason for not building any feature is simple: users don't care about it and there are more valuable other features to build. (As evidenced by system apps not being deletable on iOS for its first decade.)
      - noapologies 3y ago
        > The burden of proof is on the people requesting the feature. Fortunately there are other reasons why a business may be forced to do something, and not allowed to be the sole judge/jury/executioner. One of those is anti-trust action - something that greatly benefits humanity as a whole, even though the alternative may (or may not) be cheaper for the business. Other examples are employee protections, consumer protections, constitutional amendments etc.
        3y ago
st3fan 3y ago
Many system apps that are bundled with iOS can already be uninstalled and reinstalled via the App Store. Photos also has an “Uninstall” button. Won’t feel like trying out what that does.

trompetenaccoun 3y ago

The EU has long lost the plot with all the bureaucracy and rules. People like it when the government cracks down on powerful corporations, not understanding that the government apparatus is the most powerful and dangerous institution of them all. I'm not fully against that part of the DMA, breaking up these walled gardens could be positive. But history has shown once they start meddling with the markets, governments rarely know when to stop. That's because people in positions of power generally think they're in control and know what they're doing. Look at the recent bottle cap directive for a more insane example. There are sadly hundreds of such cases at this point and the number of rules keeps growing year by year. Doing business in the EU will become more and more difficult and especially the cost for starting a new business is growing massively because of what needs to get invested in compliance before you even get started. This will be devastating for innovation and their economy as a whole.

yokoprime 3y ago
I’m sorry, but what was that? The economy will collapse due to bottle cap directives? You know that these arguments have been thrown around by anti-EU interests since the 90s and its never ever panned out
- sweeter 3y ago
  "step off the multi-billion dollar corporation, bully!" seriously though, it never ceases to amaze me the level people repeat corporate propaganda and conflate corporate success with their own self-worth. These companies literally spend billions in lobbying the government to "influence" their decisions and run rigorous ad campaigns that smear any sentiment that isn't vehemently pro-billionaire, pro-corpoate, pro big-tech etc... so its not all that surprising that people fall for it but it is truly astounding.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    > conflate corporate success with their own self-worth I think that's what happens when you become a stockholder.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
> not understanding that the government apparatus is the most powerful and dangerous institution of them all OK, but we can vote government out at regular intervals, meanwhile we're supposed to just accept anything corporations do because... they're not government? Cherry picking and misrepresenting EU regulations doesn't make your argument any clearer. But where your argument really fails is that you don't really have one beyond ideological claptrap, taken solely on faith, or perhaps with specious arguments about out of control government and how markets and corporations are innately good and cannot be "interfered" with, lest the economy and "innovation" collapse. Please give us all a break. Business don't get started and fail not because of government regulation, but because of huge corporations that crush competition, withhold access, promote incompatibility, etc. They use their size to ignore regulation and warp markets to their benefit. Of course not all corporations are bad but some are, and that's why we have regulations.

madsbuch 3y ago

Do you enjoy pre-installed aware, shareware, demoware etc. in general? or is this only because it is Apple products and his is about? like having a demo version of Norton installed on your new PC. or having Facebook OEM installed with no way to remove it? you are the first one I have ever heard of, who actively encourages and enjoys that. impressive.

gleenn 3y ago
Honestly, hard disk space is cheap. The thing that bothers me is when e.g. Norton is naggy and pops up UIs to make me interact with it despite opting out over time. Things like the Photos app sit there and occupy space but zero percent of my brain and perhaps some gigs of storage I personally am not missing.
- concinds 3y ago
  The Apple Music app makes my 32GB iPad unusable. It takes up 10GB of my 32GB, despite having 0 songs downloaded. I have no idea what takes up that space (album art alone can't account for 10GB). There's no option to clear that "Documents & Data" cache in the "iPad Storage" settings menu. Uninstalling the Music app does not remove this data. I could reset the iPad but I can't be bothered. I'm also stuck with Safari because I can't afford Chrome's 200MB, and with Mail because the Gmail app is 500MB.
  - rmah 3y ago
    Something is very wrong with your iPad storage. My Apple Music (also mostly unused) takes up a grand total of 28 MB, of which 23.5 MB is the app.
- talldayo 3y ago
  > hard disk space is cheap Are we referring to the same Apple company right now?
- willmadden 3y ago
  >Honestly, hard disk space is cheap. Not on Apple's laptops. They also markup hundreds of dollars for +8 GB of RAM, which probably costs them 10-20 USD.

__alexs 3y ago

Imagine how much time could have been saved if they had just made Photos a normal app from the beginning?

shuckles 3y ago
In reality it would play out a lot more like the Web Apps episode: if the barrier to entry for any new idea was it had to meet the EU's extensive list of arbitrary rules, most new ideas would never be realized. I guess it's time saved, but not in the sense you think.
st3fan 3y ago
You can uninstall the photos app. And reinstall it from the App Store via https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/photos/id1584215428 https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/photos/id1584215428 Or you can install a completely alternative app to manage your photos. The only thing iOS does in that case is provide the “Album” functionality.
- shuckles 3y ago
  I think you can hide it but not uninstall it. My understanding is the EU's objection is that Photos app still provides the default photo picker functionality when the app is gone; and they'd like Google Photos to satisfy that role if a user prefers. Of course, the EU's approach here is to be coy about what it wants and only make it explicit alongside a headline-grabbing fine.

noapologies 3y ago

Please do tell us more about why the Photos "app" is unique and wasn't uninstallable to begin with, surely it's not a business decision made explicitly to increase vendor lock-in and introduce friction to consumer choice (like the rest of the Apple suite of "apps").

shuckles 3y ago
Are you seriously asking why Apple offers its users a built-in app to view the photos taken with their phone? You'd prefer if users had to choose and install a photo management app before they could take a picture?
- noapologies 3y ago
  > Are you seriously asking why Apple offers its users a built-in app ... As you may have already read in my comment, I'm asking why it wasn't uninstallable to begin with.
  - shuckles 3y ago
    The burden of proof is on the people requesting the feature. The reason for not building any feature is simple: users don't care about it and there are more valuable other features to build. (As evidenced by system apps not being deletable on iOS for its first decade.)
    - noapologies 3y ago
      > The burden of proof is on the people requesting the feature. Fortunately there are other reasons why a business may be forced to do something, and not allowed to be the sole judge/jury/executioner. One of those is anti-trust action - something that greatly benefits humanity as a whole, even though the alternative may (or may not) be cheaper for the business. Other examples are employee protections, consumer protections, constitutional amendments etc.
      - 3y ago

st3fan 3y ago

Many system apps that are bundled with iOS can already be uninstalled and reinstalled via the App Store. Photos also has an “Uninstall” button. Won’t feel like trying out what that does.