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And Jack Welch came from an engineering background. As much as I sympathize with the notion that engineers make better CEOs, they're not immune to the same inf

And Jack Welch came from an engineering background. As much as I sympathize with the notion that engineers make better CEOs, they're not immune to the same influences as everyone else.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
No one is arguing it's a guarantee engineers are always good executives. Also looks like Welch was a chemical engineer before GE, so not sure how much of that knowledge transfers.
dylan604 3y ago
I highly doubt that an engineer would make a great CEO, but a CEO with no engineering background isn't going to know when what the engineers are saying that goes against what the business people are saying will matter. The bean counters will always be against anything cutting into the profit margin even if that extra expense the engineers are pushing for will actually make or break the thing.
- tivert 3y ago
  > The bean counters will always be against anything cutting into the profit margin even if that extra expense the engineers are pushing for will actually make or break the thing. I think they key point is: you can't competently make a tradeoff between two domains if you don't understand both of those domains. Engineers want to make the best engineered thing, and have a harder time prioritizing costs. Accountants/business types want to make some money number go up this quarter, and will reject good engineering ideas to penny-pinch. Someone needs to be able to (competently) keep both groups aligned.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    The biggest issue with what you just said is "this quarter". The shortsightedness of "this quarter" is the downfall. It is possible that for the greatest good in "number go up" measurement, that this quarter "number not go up" is acceptable if it means "number go up" is possible for longer later.
    - tivert 3y ago
      > The biggest issue with what you just said is "this quarter". The shortsightedness of "this quarter" is the downfall. It is possible that for the greatest good in "number go up" measurement, that this quarter "number not go up" is acceptable if it means "number go up" is possible for longer later. Another problem is the shortsightedness of "this quarter" can actually work for a long time, until it doesn't. People who kick the can down the road don't always realize what they're doing, because they never stuck around to pay the piper for that decision they made. Then problems are easy to excuse as the incompetence of the last guy(s), and the can-kicker can imagine themselves as some great business leader.
- ebiester 3y ago
  I think this is a mass generalization of accountants. Accountants are a wide varying type but the attention to detail is the key distinguishing factor. The only distinguishing feature of an accountant is that they care deeply that left column = right column. They care that you can track where your money goes, not that every budget is squeezed for profit. In truth, the right accountant might be a boon because she will listen to the engineers rather than think she knows better because she was an engineer decades ago. She may end up being a terrible CEO, but let's consider our biases here.
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  Most of these "bean counters" don't even work for Boeing. They're institutional investors and hedge funds who only care about share price. In other words, Wall Street. Boeing's mistake was in listening only to these folks and using share price as their sole success metric. Goodheart's Law took over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law Capitalism before the late 20th century had as its mantra "Build a quality product. Keep the customers and workers happy and the share price will take care of itself." Around 1980 that changed to "Bump the share price and to hell with everything else."

And Jack Welch came from an engineering background. As much as I sympathize with the notion that engineers make better CEOs, they're not immune to the same influences as everyone else.

paulryanrogers 3y ago

No one is arguing it's a guarantee engineers are always good executives. Also looks like Welch was a chemical engineer before GE, so not sure how much of that knowledge transfers.

dylan604 3y ago

I highly doubt that an engineer would make a great CEO, but a CEO with no engineering background isn't going to know when what the engineers are saying that goes against what the business people are saying will matter. The bean counters will always be against anything cutting into the profit margin even if that extra expense the engineers are pushing for will actually make or break the thing.

tivert 3y ago
> The bean counters will always be against anything cutting into the profit margin even if that extra expense the engineers are pushing for will actually make or break the thing. I think they key point is: you can't competently make a tradeoff between two domains if you don't understand both of those domains. Engineers want to make the best engineered thing, and have a harder time prioritizing costs. Accountants/business types want to make some money number go up this quarter, and will reject good engineering ideas to penny-pinch. Someone needs to be able to (competently) keep both groups aligned.
- dylan604 3y ago
  The biggest issue with what you just said is "this quarter". The shortsightedness of "this quarter" is the downfall. It is possible that for the greatest good in "number go up" measurement, that this quarter "number not go up" is acceptable if it means "number go up" is possible for longer later.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > The biggest issue with what you just said is "this quarter". The shortsightedness of "this quarter" is the downfall. It is possible that for the greatest good in "number go up" measurement, that this quarter "number not go up" is acceptable if it means "number go up" is possible for longer later. Another problem is the shortsightedness of "this quarter" can actually work for a long time, until it doesn't. People who kick the can down the road don't always realize what they're doing, because they never stuck around to pay the piper for that decision they made. Then problems are easy to excuse as the incompetence of the last guy(s), and the can-kicker can imagine themselves as some great business leader.
ebiester 3y ago
I think this is a mass generalization of accountants. Accountants are a wide varying type but the attention to detail is the key distinguishing factor. The only distinguishing feature of an accountant is that they care deeply that left column = right column. They care that you can track where your money goes, not that every budget is squeezed for profit. In truth, the right accountant might be a boon because she will listen to the engineers rather than think she knows better because she was an engineer decades ago. She may end up being a terrible CEO, but let's consider our biases here.
dreamcompiler 3y ago
Most of these "bean counters" don't even work for Boeing. They're institutional investors and hedge funds who only care about share price. In other words, Wall Street. Boeing's mistake was in listening only to these folks and using share price as their sole success metric. Goodheart's Law took over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law Capitalism before the late 20th century had as its mantra "Build a quality product. Keep the customers and workers happy and the share price will take care of itself." Around 1980 that changed to "Bump the share price and to hell with everything else."