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If bean counters are useless and can’t value engineering, why do you start your comment with a story about a hedge fund guy’s opinion? They are the ultimate bea

If bean counters are useless and can’t value engineering, why do you start your comment with a story about a hedge fund guy’s opinion? They are the ultimate bean counters.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> hedge fund guy’s opinion? They are the ultimate bean counters Finance and accounting are totally different professions, especially when it comes to the dispositions of the people at the top.
- shuckles 3y ago
  Calhoun was a Managing Director at Blackstone which, sure, isn’t a hedge fund but surely is not a glorified accounting firm. If he can be called a bean counter, so can Anonymous Hedge Fund Guy. There are plenty of extremely strategic CFOs that began their careers as “bean counters.” The terms of all this discussion and theorizing are purely in-group out-group confirmation bias nonsense.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    Totally different doesn’t mean you can’t have both. It just means one doesn’t confer the other. More broadly, I agree with you. Pretending everything would be better under a real engineer is a deluded combination of No True Scotsman and in-group signalling. As HN demonstrates, no group is immune to their siren calls.
  - dv_dt 3y ago
    And Btw Blackstone is probably making similar penny wise pound foolish errors only on the scale of the national economy.
earthnail 3y ago
Yes and no. They try to integrate more system thinking in order to justify larger risks. He explains it very well with the factors that the hedge fund guy considers that the accountant does not. Not that I’m a huge fan of hedge funds but I believe the OP’s point is very valid.
- shuckles 3y ago
  The finance organization of a firm is plenty capable of recognizing high-risk projects have strategic value. Apple spent a decade failing to build a car while being run by an operations expert blamed for pushing compromises to the design group and a famously stingy CFO. Engineering orgs are totally capable of giving up on engineering without any pressure from outside functions. You can’t build a clean sheet plane because MIT grads want to live in New York City? Is that serious thinking? No.
thrawa8387336 3y ago
Finance is just very refined engineering. There's good and bad engineering, depending on the trade offs. Usually in finance the contrast is short vs long term profit
- shuckles 3y ago
  “Very refined engineering” sounds like a made up concept. There are a handful of top hedge funds which operate like high-functioning engineering firms, but a portfolio manager who speculates that an industrial firm can’t bring products to market because of nonsense like where engineers want to live is absolutely not in that class.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
I am not a hedge fund investor, but was an early-ish Tesla investor. I agree with the thesis. It is also why I have SpaceX equity exposure. The people who are at these orgs are driven by the mission and at the top of their game, which leads to rapid and substantial value creation. That is not to say there aren't some diamonds at second class orgs, but they are not empowered by the org; on the contrary, the org holds them back, leading to either value destruction or an anemic value creation trajectory as a whole.
- stephenitis 3y ago
  Did you buy shares on a private market?
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Brokered transaction with a known counterparty.

If bean counters are useless and can’t value engineering, why do you start your comment with a story about a hedge fund guy’s opinion? They are the ultimate bean counters.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> hedge fund guy’s opinion? They are the ultimate bean counters Finance and accounting are totally different professions, especially when it comes to the dispositions of the people at the top.

shuckles 3y ago
Calhoun was a Managing Director at Blackstone which, sure, isn’t a hedge fund but surely is not a glorified accounting firm. If he can be called a bean counter, so can Anonymous Hedge Fund Guy. There are plenty of extremely strategic CFOs that began their careers as “bean counters.” The terms of all this discussion and theorizing are purely in-group out-group confirmation bias nonsense.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  Totally different doesn’t mean you can’t have both. It just means one doesn’t confer the other. More broadly, I agree with you. Pretending everything would be better under a real engineer is a deluded combination of No True Scotsman and in-group signalling. As HN demonstrates, no group is immune to their siren calls.
- dv_dt 3y ago
  And Btw Blackstone is probably making similar penny wise pound foolish errors only on the scale of the national economy.

earthnail 3y ago

Yes and no. They try to integrate more system thinking in order to justify larger risks. He explains it very well with the factors that the hedge fund guy considers that the accountant does not. Not that I’m a huge fan of hedge funds but I believe the OP’s point is very valid.

shuckles 3y ago
The finance organization of a firm is plenty capable of recognizing high-risk projects have strategic value. Apple spent a decade failing to build a car while being run by an operations expert blamed for pushing compromises to the design group and a famously stingy CFO. Engineering orgs are totally capable of giving up on engineering without any pressure from outside functions. You can’t build a clean sheet plane because MIT grads want to live in New York City? Is that serious thinking? No.

thrawa8387336 3y ago

Finance is just very refined engineering. There's good and bad engineering, depending on the trade offs. Usually in finance the contrast is short vs long term profit

shuckles 3y ago
“Very refined engineering” sounds like a made up concept. There are a handful of top hedge funds which operate like high-functioning engineering firms, but a portfolio manager who speculates that an industrial firm can’t bring products to market because of nonsense like where engineers want to live is absolutely not in that class.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

I am not a hedge fund investor, but was an early-ish Tesla investor. I agree with the thesis. It is also why I have SpaceX equity exposure. The people who are at these orgs are driven by the mission and at the top of their game, which leads to rapid and substantial value creation. That is not to say there aren't some diamonds at second class orgs, but they are not empowered by the org; on the contrary, the org holds them back, leading to either value destruction or an anemic value creation trajectory as a whole.

stephenitis 3y ago
Did you buy shares on a private market?
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Brokered transaction with a known counterparty.