3 ms·

I still don't see this as being a valid reason for disavantaging the planet. Like they did in the EU when the Belgiam politicial managed to get a tax imposed to

by hcfman 3y ago

I still don't see this as being a valid reason for disavantaging the planet. Like they did in the EU when the Belgiam politicial managed to get a tax imposed to make solar panels more expensive from Chain. One would expect Germanies business to be thriving now. But to make solar panels artificially more expensive for any reason at all is extreme folly for the planet if anyone cares about that.

dubcanada 3y ago
It's rather silly if you ask me how protectionist most capitalist market pro countries are. Any solar panel worth buying at the moment comes from China. Yet we have insane tariffs on imported them into Canada or USA. But if you go down to Joe's Solar and ask for a quote, you're getting a quote on imported Chinese solar panels. So all they are doing is artificially raising the price of every single solar installation while offering a rebate, the local manufacturer if they even exist does not make panels that produce enough energy to compete and still cost more then importing at 150% tariff.
- palmfacehn 3y ago
  Protectionism isn't generally regarded as pro-market. Command and control economies where states subsidize auto industries, put up grants for chip fabs or nationalize entire sectors are vaguely oriented towards market pricing at best.
jiehong 3y ago
Indeed! And the "better for the planet if sourced locally" would be easier to handle if there was a carbon tax to account for it in the first place, and letting the market handle it.
balderdash 3y ago
But you’re not comparing the same products, for example how much more should one pay to have a product not produced with slave labour?
- fy20 3y ago
  I am in Lithuania (EU) and when I had solar panels installed on my house, I got them installed and manufactured by a local company - whose factory is less than 10 miles from my house. I got quotes from a few companies, and this was was more expensive, but it was only around €1000 (10%) more than the cheapest company which offered Chinese panels. I figured if I need to make a warranty claim in 20 years time, this company is likely to still be around, plus I'm supporting the local economy. Its not just assembly of panels, the solar cells are also made in Lithuania (this company started out creating optical parts). Last year they branched out and launched their own line of residential batteries (not sure if the cells are made in-house) and they announced plans to build a new PV factory in Italy. Admitidely our labour is a bit cheaper than Germany, but it's not much, and the cost of doing business here in general is higher. If it can be done here, I don't see why it can't be done in Germany. https://www.solitek.eu/en https://www.solitek.eu/en
  - balderdash 3y ago
    Glad to hear it. On a home installation the solar module cost is a smaller percentage of the total bill right? So wasn’t the premium paid for the modules more percentage wise than 10% of the total bill? Separately people pay ~3-5x more for modules in the retail market than at utility scale so paying say 55c/w vs say 50c/w retail isn’t a huge deal, but for utility scale projects where Chinese modules are 20-30c/w paying 50c/w is totally untenable.
z7 3y ago
What if higher energy prices in Germany lead to increased outsourcing to countries with fewer environmental regulations, causing a net negative environmental impact?
- SiempreViernes 3y ago
  Still a win because the environment effects of solar manufacturing are basically local while the gains are global.
Neil44 3y ago
Because the 'just buy everything from china' strategy is risky and shortsighted. If you have zero local manufacturing capability you are under china's power.
- brnt 3y ago
  'Buy manufacturing from China' is a bit like 'buying gas from Russia', or so we will all say once that came crushing down too.

by hcfman 3y ago

dubcanada 3y ago

It's rather silly if you ask me how protectionist most capitalist market pro countries are. Any solar panel worth buying at the moment comes from China. Yet we have insane tariffs on imported them into Canada or USA. But if you go down to Joe's Solar and ask for a quote, you're getting a quote on imported Chinese solar panels. So all they are doing is artificially raising the price of every single solar installation while offering a rebate, the local manufacturer if they even exist does not make panels that produce enough energy to compete and still cost more then importing at 150% tariff.

palmfacehn 3y ago
Protectionism isn't generally regarded as pro-market. Command and control economies where states subsidize auto industries, put up grants for chip fabs or nationalize entire sectors are vaguely oriented towards market pricing at best.

jiehong 3y ago

Indeed! And the "better for the planet if sourced locally" would be easier to handle if there was a carbon tax to account for it in the first place, and letting the market handle it.

balderdash 3y ago

But you’re not comparing the same products, for example how much more should one pay to have a product not produced with slave labour?

fy20 3y ago
I am in Lithuania (EU) and when I had solar panels installed on my house, I got them installed and manufactured by a local company - whose factory is less than 10 miles from my house. I got quotes from a few companies, and this was was more expensive, but it was only around €1000 (10%) more than the cheapest company which offered Chinese panels. I figured if I need to make a warranty claim in 20 years time, this company is likely to still be around, plus I'm supporting the local economy. Its not just assembly of panels, the solar cells are also made in Lithuania (this company started out creating optical parts). Last year they branched out and launched their own line of residential batteries (not sure if the cells are made in-house) and they announced plans to build a new PV factory in Italy. Admitidely our labour is a bit cheaper than Germany, but it's not much, and the cost of doing business here in general is higher. If it can be done here, I don't see why it can't be done in Germany. https://www.solitek.eu/en https://www.solitek.eu/en
- balderdash 3y ago
  Glad to hear it. On a home installation the solar module cost is a smaller percentage of the total bill right? So wasn’t the premium paid for the modules more percentage wise than 10% of the total bill? Separately people pay ~3-5x more for modules in the retail market than at utility scale so paying say 55c/w vs say 50c/w retail isn’t a huge deal, but for utility scale projects where Chinese modules are 20-30c/w paying 50c/w is totally untenable.

z7 3y ago

What if higher energy prices in Germany lead to increased outsourcing to countries with fewer environmental regulations, causing a net negative environmental impact?

SiempreViernes 3y ago
Still a win because the environment effects of solar manufacturing are basically local while the gains are global.

Neil44 3y ago

Because the 'just buy everything from china' strategy is risky and shortsighted. If you have zero local manufacturing capability you are under china's power.

brnt 3y ago
'Buy manufacturing from China' is a bit like 'buying gas from Russia', or so we will all say once that came crushing down too.