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Lack of Chip and PIN support is going to be a major turn-off in much of the European market...

by aes256 14y ago

suhailpatel 14y ago
Exactly this. I've had a chip and pin card since they were introduced in the UK and never had to sign anything related to payment. It's always a case of entering your PIN on the terminal and authorise. I was previously under the assumption that you can't authorise a payment via a signature nowadays in the UK?
- quarterto 14y ago
  From http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/faqs/affect.html#retailer http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/faqs/affect.html#retailer: What if the retailer does not accept chip and PIN? Where the retailer has not upgraded to chip and PIN technology, you will be asked to follow the current card payment process using your signature to confirm the transaction.
  - dan1234 14y ago
    That site hasn't been updated since 2006 so I would rely on any information on there.
objclxt 14y ago
Absolutely - what's not clear at all is where the liability lies. In the UK at least, and I assume the rest of Europe, if a retailer uses a PIN the liability for fraud rests with the card issuer. But if the retailer lets the user sign instead the liability is with them: this is an incentive for retailers to accept and promote Chip/PIN over a signature. iZettle read the chip (good), but then you sign for the goods (bad). It's not at all clear if that means liability for fraud now rests with the seller rather than the issuer. Their help page is very vague on the subject, and alludes to the fact card issuers won't allow PINs to be captured on mobile devices (this makes some sense, from a phishing perspective). In fact, iZettle's help page has zero results when you search for 'fraud'. I think this is something they should address. Coincidentally (shameless plug here), I blogged about this exact problem a month or so ago, bemoaning the lack of a good Chip & PIN solution. I'm not convinced iZettle is it...I've now written up some more concerns about fraud in a new post, here: http://cleveryou.net/post/23162180527/izettle-square-killer http://cleveryou.net/post/23162180527/izettle-square-killer
spydre100 14y ago
I disagree. These systems will just take over as by design they are like a Trojan horse. Sure i think that Europeans are less easy going than their us counterparts, none the same I think these apps will take off with or without a pin. Furthermore once you have signed and paid once your card details are securely stored and their is no need to use it ever again. Just like purchasing on-line you can just use a consumer app to make payment with out the need for the card - and as such the pin and even signature is irrelevant!
- objclxt 14y ago
  You need to bear in mind that in most of Europe there was a large advertising campaign when Chip & PIN was introduced, along the lines of "signatures are very insecure, so we're introducing Chip & PIN". So there may well be some resistance from users who have been educated to understand that at point-of-sale they should be using PINs. There may well be people put-off with signing rather than using a PIN.

Lack of Chip and PIN support is going to be a major turn-off in much of the European market...

by aes256 14y ago

Lack of Chip and PIN support is going to be a major turn-off in much of the European market...

Exactly this. I've had a chip and pin card since they were introduced in the UK and never had to sign anything related to payment. It's always a case of entering your PIN on the terminal and authorise. I was previously under the assumption that you can't authorise a payment via a signature nowadays in the UK?

quarterto 14y ago
From http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/faqs/affect.html#retailer http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/faqs/affect.html#retailer: What if the retailer does not accept chip and PIN? Where the retailer has not upgraded to chip and PIN technology, you will be asked to follow the current card payment process using your signature to confirm the transaction.
- dan1234 14y ago
  That site hasn't been updated since 2006 so I would rely on any information on there.

objclxt 14y ago

Absolutely - what's not clear at all is where the liability lies. In the UK at least, and I assume the rest of Europe, if a retailer uses a PIN the liability for fraud rests with the card issuer. But if the retailer lets the user sign instead the liability is with them: this is an incentive for retailers to accept and promote Chip/PIN over a signature. iZettle read the chip (good), but then you sign for the goods (bad). It's not at all clear if that means liability for fraud now rests with the seller rather than the issuer. Their help page is very vague on the subject, and alludes to the fact card issuers won't allow PINs to be captured on mobile devices (this makes some sense, from a phishing perspective). In fact, iZettle's help page has zero results when you search for 'fraud'. I think this is something they should address. Coincidentally (shameless plug here), I blogged about this exact problem a month or so ago, bemoaning the lack of a good Chip & PIN solution. I'm not convinced iZettle is it...I've now written up some more concerns about fraud in a new post, here: http://cleveryou.net/post/23162180527/izettle-square-killer http://cleveryou.net/post/23162180527/izettle-square-killer

spydre100 14y ago

I disagree. These systems will just take over as by design they are like a Trojan horse. Sure i think that Europeans are less easy going than their us counterparts, none the same I think these apps will take off with or without a pin. Furthermore once you have signed and paid once your card details are securely stored and their is no need to use it ever again. Just like purchasing on-line you can just use a consumer app to make payment with out the need for the card - and as such the pin and even signature is irrelevant!

objclxt 14y ago
You need to bear in mind that in most of Europe there was a large advertising campaign when Chip & PIN was introduced, along the lines of "signatures are very insecure, so we're introducing Chip & PIN". So there may well be some resistance from users who have been educated to understand that at point-of-sale they should be using PINs. There may well be people put-off with signing rather than using a PIN.