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I find it so interesting how many of the symbol used are with objects that have or that will disappear from our lives. A camcorder, a floppy disk, a CD-ROM, a

I find it so interesting how many of the symbol used are with objects that have or that will disappear from our lives. A camcorder, a floppy disk, a CD-ROM, a film (for a camera), maybe even the fountain pen. All of which I can recognise, but all of which will probably leave my daughters baffled if I were to ask them what it was...

taco-hands 3y ago
THAT telephone modem icon!
nonrandomstring 3y ago
> I find it so interesting how many of the symbol used are with objects that have or that will disappear from our lives. It is interesting how iconography links to timeless design. Function and appearance have a way of coexisting in good design so the "idea" of something gets into semiotics. Disk storage is a timeless concept. It's absent now but will no doubt return in some new guise on the next wave of materials science and storage tech. The pen is timeless too. Perhaps the weird one is the classic phone handset. My daughter who never saw one except maybe on a cartoon, instantly knew what to do with an old 1970s rotary I was hacking. The design "reaches out" and suggests its usage. Partly that's our monkey brains that sees tools and uses in everything.
- stavros 3y ago
  I'm surprised your daughter knew what to do. I made a rotary mobile phone and showed it off in an exhibition, and kids were universally baffled. They tried to press the numbers in the wheel, then they tried to turn it without picking up the handset (why would they pick up first, everyone knows you dial the number and then you confirm the call), etc. How did your daughter immediately grasp those non-obvious, hidden concepts?
  - nonrandomstring 3y ago
    Think I remember you posting this before when we had a discussion about modding old phones. I'm convinced she saw it in a cartoon like Dora or Fireman Sam. But didn't hesitate to pick up the handset and put it to her ear. EDIT: Damnit I just had a flash of insight... thanks for the memory jolt. As a baby she had a modern version of something like this [0] (hope the image loads for you). They still make them almost the same. It's a "walker/activity toy" with a rotary dial that made a sound and a phone handset. [0] https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/28/21/fd28216d19251b2d7895dbb078f8da54.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/28/21/fd28216d19251b2d7895...
    - stavros 3y ago
      Ahh interesting, I hadn't thought about cartoons, thanks. I probably did post this before, I find it interesting how one thing can be entirely obvious to one generation, but completely opaque to another.
  - seabass-labrax 3y ago
    > why would they pick up first, everyone knows you dial the number and then you confirm the call That's such an interesting point. Having grown up with landlines (DTMF and initially pulse-dialing ones), I was trying to do the very opposite with my mobile phone just yesterday! The cellular connection was atrocious, with my calls being rejected or silenced regardless of the carrier. I attempted to start the call with an empty number so that I could hear that the dialing tones were correct myself - of course, it didn't let me. I don't suppose the dialing stage of a modern mobile phone is analogue anyway, is it?
    - stavros 3y ago
      It's not, it's all digital, AFAIK the mobile userland communicates (or used to communicate) with the baseband via AT commands.
      - seabass-labrax 3y ago
        Ah, right - I've had a bit of experience with sending AT commands directly when the PinePhone first came out, but not gone into it any further since. In that light, it does seem rather naive of me to attempt to compare dialing tones by ear, but I suppose one reverts to type when desperate!
usrusr 3y ago
A grammophone icon for music wouldn't exactly be cryptic to me and I'm not sure I ever heard one. But you said baffled when asked to describe, not confused by the icon. I think we have precedent in the iconography of specialist occupations that have already existed in preindustrial times. The various brewing implements that adorn the labels of many breweries, the geometry implements that now only live on in freemasonry.. They all have names, but those names are lost to everybody but those who enjoy accumulating knowledge of old-timey things. Baffled, yes. But the world already is full of that kind of echoes from the past, it's not like someone is confused by them. Those who might consider a box of 3.5" a box of old save icons grew up with those save icons, it's the world they know.
- williamcotton 3y ago
  Don’t kids still use a compass and a square in geometry class?
  - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
    Compass & straightedge. The mason logo has dividers & a square. Dividers are still used by machinists doing layout, mostly toolroom side not production side.

taco-hands 3y ago

THAT telephone modem icon!

nonrandomstring 3y ago

> I find it so interesting how many of the symbol used are with objects that have or that will disappear from our lives. It is interesting how iconography links to timeless design. Function and appearance have a way of coexisting in good design so the "idea" of something gets into semiotics. Disk storage is a timeless concept. It's absent now but will no doubt return in some new guise on the next wave of materials science and storage tech. The pen is timeless too. Perhaps the weird one is the classic phone handset. My daughter who never saw one except maybe on a cartoon, instantly knew what to do with an old 1970s rotary I was hacking. The design "reaches out" and suggests its usage. Partly that's our monkey brains that sees tools and uses in everything.

stavros 3y ago
I'm surprised your daughter knew what to do. I made a rotary mobile phone and showed it off in an exhibition, and kids were universally baffled. They tried to press the numbers in the wheel, then they tried to turn it without picking up the handset (why would they pick up first, everyone knows you dial the number and then you confirm the call), etc. How did your daughter immediately grasp those non-obvious, hidden concepts?
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  Think I remember you posting this before when we had a discussion about modding old phones. I'm convinced she saw it in a cartoon like Dora or Fireman Sam. But didn't hesitate to pick up the handset and put it to her ear. EDIT: Damnit I just had a flash of insight... thanks for the memory jolt. As a baby she had a modern version of something like this [0] (hope the image loads for you). They still make them almost the same. It's a "walker/activity toy" with a rotary dial that made a sound and a phone handset. [0] https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/28/21/fd28216d19251b2d7895dbb078f8da54.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/28/21/fd28216d19251b2d7895...
  - stavros 3y ago
    Ahh interesting, I hadn't thought about cartoons, thanks. I probably did post this before, I find it interesting how one thing can be entirely obvious to one generation, but completely opaque to another.
- seabass-labrax 3y ago
  > why would they pick up first, everyone knows you dial the number and then you confirm the call That's such an interesting point. Having grown up with landlines (DTMF and initially pulse-dialing ones), I was trying to do the very opposite with my mobile phone just yesterday! The cellular connection was atrocious, with my calls being rejected or silenced regardless of the carrier. I attempted to start the call with an empty number so that I could hear that the dialing tones were correct myself - of course, it didn't let me. I don't suppose the dialing stage of a modern mobile phone is analogue anyway, is it?
  - stavros 3y ago
    It's not, it's all digital, AFAIK the mobile userland communicates (or used to communicate) with the baseband via AT commands.
    - seabass-labrax 3y ago
      Ah, right - I've had a bit of experience with sending AT commands directly when the PinePhone first came out, but not gone into it any further since. In that light, it does seem rather naive of me to attempt to compare dialing tones by ear, but I suppose one reverts to type when desperate!

usrusr 3y ago

A grammophone icon for music wouldn't exactly be cryptic to me and I'm not sure I ever heard one. But you said baffled when asked to describe, not confused by the icon. I think we have precedent in the iconography of specialist occupations that have already existed in preindustrial times. The various brewing implements that adorn the labels of many breweries, the geometry implements that now only live on in freemasonry.. They all have names, but those names are lost to everybody but those who enjoy accumulating knowledge of old-timey things. Baffled, yes. But the world already is full of that kind of echoes from the past, it's not like someone is confused by them. Those who might consider a box of 3.5" a box of old save icons grew up with those save icons, it's the world they know.

williamcotton 3y ago
Don’t kids still use a compass and a square in geometry class?
- SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
  Compass & straightedge. The mason logo has dividers & a square. Dividers are still used by machinists doing layout, mostly toolroom side not production side.