7 ms·

Wow, I knew Starlink had an enormous constellation, but visualizing it like that really empathizes the scope. Would be cool if one day you could get your connec

Wow, I knew Starlink had an enormous constellation, but visualizing it like that really empathizes the scope. Would be cool if one day you could get your connectivity needs handled by a single company cheaply, almost anywhere in the world, without bothering about new contracts, moving cities or country borders.

pzo 3y ago
I'm wondering it this is even technically possible because of bandwidth? There is many more mobile cell towers worldwide - all they are big, connected to power grid, connected internet with fiberoptic, much closer to users but such one tower can still struggle to handle traffic during peak times when many users are connected.
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  Density, I'd imagine. Some cell towers are serving hundreds of thousands of people individually. It seems on average the satelites are serving 400-500 on average.
londons_explore 3y ago
I suspect the country borders problem will never get resolved. Even now, starlink is only available in US-allied countries.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  But you CAN reduce amount of borders ;)
  - hnbad 3y ago
    Ask Russia how that's been going ;)
- lupusreal 3y ago
  Apparently it's active in Iran (because the US government wants it to be.)
  - mlindner 3y ago
    SpaceX worked with the state department to enable it. It happened during the Iran protests. So it's more like the state department allowed any US connectivity provider to provide service in Iran.
squarefoot 3y ago
A single company and cheaply are usually mutually exclusive as competition is what keeps prices down.
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  Global service doesn't mean no competition...
- hnbad 3y ago
  They're not mutually exclusive as far as cost goes - quite the opposite (hence all the talk about "synergy" and "vertical integration" in enterprise spaces) - but you're right about consumer prices. I think what's keeping the consumer prices for Starlink down is that for the vast majority of its coverage it does have competition. Much like how it's in Tesla's best interests for the US not to invest in high-speed rail (hence Musk's "Hyperloop" stunt to prevent an infrastructure investment), it's in Starlink's best interests for countries not to invest in broadband technologies (whether it's mobile networks or fiber). I'm not aware of any plans to dissuade governments from those investments yet but I wouldn't be surprised to see it. Presumably Musk is too busy with Twitter at the moment.
  - sandworm101 3y ago
    Im already seeing an impact. Rural wifi networks are being replaced by starlink, at least for those able to afford it. Starlink is certainly faster to setup and maintain, but remains far more expensive day to day than a rural wifi net. I have family on a rural network with solar-powered relays setup on islands. New retirees to the area are just buying starlink without even asking about the local net. So it is no longer being expanded to new locations/islands. The new people also dont want relays on thier land. They dont support the local/cheap option it because they have been sold starlink by whatever off-grid company is setting up thier new cabin.
    - koenigdavidmj 3y ago
      The San Juans?
gambiting 3y ago
>>Would be cool if one day you could get your connectivity needs handled by a single company cheaply, almost anywhere in the world That sounds like an absolute distopian nightmare and the last person on earth that I want to be running this service is Elon Musk. In general I find it horrendous how a single american company can pollute the night sky for every human being in the world, whether they can use their services or not. Technologically I'm in awe of what Starlink achieves, it's an incredible feat - and yet I still think it's a travesty that it's allowed to exist at all.
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  Have you seen them in orbit? I look at the sky regularly in a low light area and I've not seen any "pollution", but maybe I don't know how to look?
  - vik0 3y ago
    I can spot the satellites (sometimes) if I look up at night, but it's not like I see anything more than a bunch of dim lights beaming across the sky. So I don't think that counts as light pollution
    - LeonM 3y ago
      There are plenty of satellites visible to the naked eye, not just Starlink ones. I remember as a kid (far before Starlink existed) that we'd always go stargazing when we were camping (far from any city light pollution). And the longer you'd watch, the more you would see 'stars move'. The ISS is also very clearly visible. It's pretty wild to see it re-appear every 90 minutes or so. Insane to think how fast that thing is moving.
  - pnut 3y ago
    I was walking my dog a few months ago right after dusk and randomly saw the starlink train, it was a linear constellation marching across the entire sky, from horizon to horizon, and lasted at least 2 minutes. It was both amazing and disturbing.
LorenDB 3y ago
Elon has already stated that Starlink is not a replacement for a quality wired/fiber connection. His goal with Starlink is to cover areas that aren't covered by ISPs for whatever reason.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hoseja 3y ago
    Almost as if he's human. Better replace him with a bolshevik committee!
    - CooCooCaCha 3y ago
      I love how some people see holding others accountable as communism. And by love I mean it’s an incredibly stupid and toxic attitude.
    - NikolaNovak 3y ago
      What the Frick. Yes we are all human. But I think there's a massive demonstrable difference between human beings as to their consistency over time and humility In acknowledging it. To learn and to change is noble! But with some people it seems more of being fickle than actual learning and changing. The Bolshevik committee thing, I cannot even behind to parse. I think some people have such internal strong opinions and anger and constant mental fights with some perceived other devil side, that random unconnected bits just spew out occasionally into real world discussions. Are we going to add words nazi and woke and socialist to this as well? :(
- wmf 3y ago
  I once read about a gas station chain that used VSAT for credit card processing because it's faster than POTS and they didn't have to deal with different local telcos/ISPs. I'm not sure how true that is, but for some low-bandwidth uses I can see the appeal of having a single national/worldwide ISP.
ryukoposting 3y ago
> Would be cool if one day you could get your connectivity needs handled by a single company cheaply, almost anywhere in the world, without bothering about new contracts, moving cities or country borders. AFAICT that's exactly what Starlink is trying to do. Their satellites are in a low enough orbit to provide sufficient bandwidth for light web browsing, and they certainly have enough satellites to provide reliable coverage (by satellite standards). Thing is, satcom is still much more expensive, much slower, and much more power-hungry than what folks have gotten used to with broadband home internet, LTE, and 5G. I have the feeling that it will always be that way - it takes a lot more power to blast a signal into space than it does to send it to a tower down the street, or to the router in your living room. The section of the general population that is willing to make such huge tradeoffs in exchange for truly global coverage is quite small. Militaries and certain types of businesses love it, though.
elif 3y ago
Google Fi is uncapped, global, free roaming. Probably some countries don't work but so far ~30/30 for me.
- Liquid_Fire 3y ago
  Sounds interesting, but it appears to be available only in the US, and the international roaming only works for 90 days, so I don't think it really qualifies for "without bothering about new contracts, moving cities or country borders"
  - elif 3y ago
    I dunno where you found the 90 day thing or how real/recent it is, but I was in New Zealand for about 5 months in 2019-2020 with no interruptions.
    - Liquid_Fire 3y ago
      I found it here: https://fi.google.com/about/international-rates https://fi.google.com/about/international-rates > Important: The Google Fi Terms of Service require you to activate and use Google Fi service mainly in the United States (not including territories) for at least one day before using Google Fi abroad. If the majority of your usage occurs outside of the United States over a consecutive 90-day period, we will suspend your international data. Learn more at our Help Center.
- consumer451 3y ago
  I live abroad for long periods of time, and went from T-Mobile to Mint for my US number. It's $75 per 3 months once you pass the discounted intro period. I also get a local SIM card, and I just use Mint via WiFi calling. It has been working well for me.
grecy 3y ago
> Would be cool if one day you could get your connectivity needs handled by a single company cheaply, almost anywhere in the world You already can. Tons of people driving the Pan-American Highway from Alaska to Argentina are using Starlink now - it works flawlessly no matter what country you're in. Same for people driving around Africa, across Central Asia, etc. Pro Tip - order it in a country like Mexico and the monthly fee is way lower.

pzo 3y ago

I'm wondering it this is even technically possible because of bandwidth? There is many more mobile cell towers worldwide - all they are big, connected to power grid, connected internet with fiberoptic, much closer to users but such one tower can still struggle to handle traffic during peak times when many users are connected.

averageRoyalty 3y ago
Density, I'd imagine. Some cell towers are serving hundreds of thousands of people individually. It seems on average the satelites are serving 400-500 on average.

londons_explore 3y ago

I suspect the country borders problem will never get resolved. Even now, starlink is only available in US-allied countries.

dzhiurgis 3y ago
But you CAN reduce amount of borders ;)
- hnbad 3y ago
  Ask Russia how that's been going ;)
lupusreal 3y ago
Apparently it's active in Iran (because the US government wants it to be.)
- mlindner 3y ago
  SpaceX worked with the state department to enable it. It happened during the Iran protests. So it's more like the state department allowed any US connectivity provider to provide service in Iran.

squarefoot 3y ago

A single company and cheaply are usually mutually exclusive as competition is what keeps prices down.

throwaway11460 3y ago
Global service doesn't mean no competition...
hnbad 3y ago
They're not mutually exclusive as far as cost goes - quite the opposite (hence all the talk about "synergy" and "vertical integration" in enterprise spaces) - but you're right about consumer prices. I think what's keeping the consumer prices for Starlink down is that for the vast majority of its coverage it does have competition. Much like how it's in Tesla's best interests for the US not to invest in high-speed rail (hence Musk's "Hyperloop" stunt to prevent an infrastructure investment), it's in Starlink's best interests for countries not to invest in broadband technologies (whether it's mobile networks or fiber). I'm not aware of any plans to dissuade governments from those investments yet but I wouldn't be surprised to see it. Presumably Musk is too busy with Twitter at the moment.
- sandworm101 3y ago
  Im already seeing an impact. Rural wifi networks are being replaced by starlink, at least for those able to afford it. Starlink is certainly faster to setup and maintain, but remains far more expensive day to day than a rural wifi net. I have family on a rural network with solar-powered relays setup on islands. New retirees to the area are just buying starlink without even asking about the local net. So it is no longer being expanded to new locations/islands. The new people also dont want relays on thier land. They dont support the local/cheap option it because they have been sold starlink by whatever off-grid company is setting up thier new cabin.
  - koenigdavidmj 3y ago
    The San Juans?

gambiting 3y ago

>>Would be cool if one day you could get your connectivity needs handled by a single company cheaply, almost anywhere in the world That sounds like an absolute distopian nightmare and the last person on earth that I want to be running this service is Elon Musk. In general I find it horrendous how a single american company can pollute the night sky for every human being in the world, whether they can use their services or not. Technologically I'm in awe of what Starlink achieves, it's an incredible feat - and yet I still think it's a travesty that it's allowed to exist at all.

averageRoyalty 3y ago
Have you seen them in orbit? I look at the sky regularly in a low light area and I've not seen any "pollution", but maybe I don't know how to look?
- vik0 3y ago
  I can spot the satellites (sometimes) if I look up at night, but it's not like I see anything more than a bunch of dim lights beaming across the sky. So I don't think that counts as light pollution
  - LeonM 3y ago
    There are plenty of satellites visible to the naked eye, not just Starlink ones. I remember as a kid (far before Starlink existed) that we'd always go stargazing when we were camping (far from any city light pollution). And the longer you'd watch, the more you would see 'stars move'. The ISS is also very clearly visible. It's pretty wild to see it re-appear every 90 minutes or so. Insane to think how fast that thing is moving.
- pnut 3y ago
  I was walking my dog a few months ago right after dusk and randomly saw the starlink train, it was a linear constellation marching across the entire sky, from horizon to horizon, and lasted at least 2 minutes. It was both amazing and disturbing.

LorenDB 3y ago

Elon has already stated that Starlink is not a replacement for a quality wired/fiber connection. His goal with Starlink is to cover areas that aren't covered by ISPs for whatever reason.

NikolaNovak 3y ago
[flagged]
- hoseja 3y ago
  Almost as if he's human. Better replace him with a bolshevik committee!
  - CooCooCaCha 3y ago
    I love how some people see holding others accountable as communism. And by love I mean it’s an incredibly stupid and toxic attitude.
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    What the Frick. Yes we are all human. But I think there's a massive demonstrable difference between human beings as to their consistency over time and humility In acknowledging it. To learn and to change is noble! But with some people it seems more of being fickle than actual learning and changing. The Bolshevik committee thing, I cannot even behind to parse. I think some people have such internal strong opinions and anger and constant mental fights with some perceived other devil side, that random unconnected bits just spew out occasionally into real world discussions. Are we going to add words nazi and woke and socialist to this as well? :(
wmf 3y ago
I once read about a gas station chain that used VSAT for credit card processing because it's faster than POTS and they didn't have to deal with different local telcos/ISPs. I'm not sure how true that is, but for some low-bandwidth uses I can see the appeal of having a single national/worldwide ISP.

ryukoposting 3y ago

> Would be cool if one day you could get your connectivity needs handled by a single company cheaply, almost anywhere in the world, without bothering about new contracts, moving cities or country borders. AFAICT that's exactly what Starlink is trying to do. Their satellites are in a low enough orbit to provide sufficient bandwidth for light web browsing, and they certainly have enough satellites to provide reliable coverage (by satellite standards). Thing is, satcom is still much more expensive, much slower, and much more power-hungry than what folks have gotten used to with broadband home internet, LTE, and 5G. I have the feeling that it will always be that way - it takes a lot more power to blast a signal into space than it does to send it to a tower down the street, or to the router in your living room. The section of the general population that is willing to make such huge tradeoffs in exchange for truly global coverage is quite small. Militaries and certain types of businesses love it, though.

elif 3y ago

Google Fi is uncapped, global, free roaming. Probably some countries don't work but so far ~30/30 for me.

Liquid_Fire 3y ago
Sounds interesting, but it appears to be available only in the US, and the international roaming only works for 90 days, so I don't think it really qualifies for "without bothering about new contracts, moving cities or country borders"
- elif 3y ago
  I dunno where you found the 90 day thing or how real/recent it is, but I was in New Zealand for about 5 months in 2019-2020 with no interruptions.
  - Liquid_Fire 3y ago
    I found it here: https://fi.google.com/about/international-rates https://fi.google.com/about/international-rates > Important: The Google Fi Terms of Service require you to activate and use Google Fi service mainly in the United States (not including territories) for at least one day before using Google Fi abroad. If the majority of your usage occurs outside of the United States over a consecutive 90-day period, we will suspend your international data. Learn more at our Help Center.
consumer451 3y ago
I live abroad for long periods of time, and went from T-Mobile to Mint for my US number. It's $75 per 3 months once you pass the discounted intro period. I also get a local SIM card, and I just use Mint via WiFi calling. It has been working well for me.

grecy 3y ago

> Would be cool if one day you could get your connectivity needs handled by a single company cheaply, almost anywhere in the world You already can. Tons of people driving the Pan-American Highway from Alaska to Argentina are using Starlink now - it works flawlessly no matter what country you're in. Same for people driving around Africa, across Central Asia, etc. Pro Tip - order it in a country like Mexico and the monthly fee is way lower.