5 ms·

Speaking of Reddit, People on HN often jab them when they discipline others for violating community norms, as in "This isn't Reddit. Please keep on topic." Not

by spodek 14y ago

Speaking of Reddit, People on HN often jab them when they discipline others for violating community norms, as in "This isn't Reddit. Please keep on topic." Not once have I seen the Reddit jab helpful. I've only seen it superfluous and petty. I like people saying "Please keep on topic," but why jab another community? I don't even use Reddit. I say this hoping it helps people simply remind others of this community's norms without needlessly jabbing others.

mmahemoff 14y ago
It's not a jab. It's just different community norms. HN wouldn't be HN if people were allowed to open up 10-level nested comedy threads. If I want to read those - and sometimes I do - I know I can go to Reddit.
- masklinn 14y ago
  > It's not a jab. It is a jab. > It's just different community norms. There are no "community norms" for reddit, each subreddit has its own norms and things which work in one may get all your comments mod-deleted in an other.
  - libria 14y ago
    > It is a jab. By "jab" do you mean derogatory remark? Does that not depend on the poster's perception of Reddit? If one considers them equal but different, then the remark is merely one of contrast. > each subreddit has its own norms Granted... > There are no "community norms" for reddit From what I've observed, there most definitely are. Their forms of humor are often upvoted across subreddits (e.g., inside jokes, meme's, animated gif's in lieu of discourse). This is how I interpret the reddit "jab" comparison: go there for funny, come here for info; neither is better than the other. If you personally feel HN is superior to reddit, than I can see why you'd consider it a jab.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
    - masklinn 14y ago
      > To be specific, jokes are much more welcome in /r/programming than they are here, which invites Eternal September. That is a much more realistic view, and very true. The remark is still a jab, though. > I think the pro-business mindset helps as well. Depends what you define by "help".
  - bgilroy26 14y ago
    To be specific, jokes are much more welcome in /r/programming than they are here, which invites Eternal September. I think the pro-business mindset helps as well. People start complaining when the depth that they remember isn't present in the discussions of the internet community (sometimes the gap is only perception/nostalgia). I am pretty much a poster child for someone who threatens HN culture. While I am deeply interested in the intersection of computers and human enterprise, I came over from Reddit, and I don't have any practical experience to speak of. There are many times here (or in /r/askscience) when someone leaves an opening for a joke and I feel like I just have to make it. I'm sure that originally the impulse was tied to the possibility that a lot of people would like it, but now it's merely a conditioned response. At any rate, my tendency to temporarily believe that my youngish impulsiveness would be a positive thing for the community make me an outsider here, but I don't want to change that. I know that that having a clearly defined purpose helps a community to be strong and it isn't worth making HN (or /r/askscience) more like me if it jeopardizes their existence. What's more, once in a great while, when it really is time to make a joke I've watched them go by unmolested. Edit: I'm sorry about the double post. I was having trouble typing on my phone. Edit2: In response to your comment below, I'd say that people who are pro-business are probably less introverted than I am. Given that assumption, I'd say they'd be less motivated to make those kneejerk comments because they're probably getting enough social validation elsewhere. Granted, those are assumptions layered on assumptions, but at least that was what I meant
- jasonlotito 14y ago
  If your comment amounts to "This isn't Reddit", then you're part of the problem. There are several ways to show your displeasure without having to resort to posting pointless and wasteful comments. In truth, I find the posts whining about such things worse then the posts they are in reply to.
  - mmahemoff 14y ago
    I didn't know there was a problem. I wasn't showing any displeasure.
anotherthrow 14y ago
Well, one of HN's aims is to avoid the eternal september that is very much affecting reddit at the moment. Given that, superfluous jabs at reddit might actually be effective in maintaining a barrier between the communities, or at least strongly remind people of the very specific conversational norms which apply here. Although I started using HN a while ago, I would definitely count myself as someone who uses HN to get interesting stories after going through digg and then reddit (and I'm sure there are a lot of us here) but I'm strongly aware of the particular rules here and do find myself making more of an effort to converse in good faith / be less snarky.
- jasonlotito 14y ago
  Your comment is beside the point. The issue isn't the quality of the comment the "This isn't reddit" comment is in reply to. Rather, it's the "This isn't Reddit" comment itself. Unless things have changed, you cannot upvote or downvote a post you reply to, or that replies to you (at least, your vote doesn't count). Replying means you are doing nothing more than calling attention to the comment. If the comment is not worthy of being on HN, then it's also reasonable to conclude that most comments it sparks will be of equal or lesser value. Read that part again. Understand that if a comment sparks intelligent discussion, it's generally a good comment. And comments that spark intelligent discussion should be supported. So, either you are part of the problem, or you are wrong, by posting "This isn't Reddit. Please keep on topic." comments. The best solution? Vote accordingly and contribute.
  - anotherthrow 14y ago
    I can't see that your argument engages with anything I've said. I've spelt out a plausible mechanism by which some comments would add value to the community (by preventing deterioration of standards of discourse). If you want to say otherwise, you'll have to take issue with that argument. As it stands, you've not done so. Regarding this: > If the comment is not worthy of being on HN, then it's also reasonable to conclude that most comments it sparks will be of equal or lesser value. I don't see any reason to accept it, but even if it did we're talking about a specific subset of responses, and so I've presented an argument for why that subset would add value. This is not inconsistent with the general claim, and so your general claim does not do much in the way of response - it is beside the point. Finally, 'adding value' is more than just 'sparking valuable comments'. Comments can add value without sparking valuable comments by, e.g. re-enforcing valuable community norms.
abrahamsen 14y ago
I don't see it as a jab, but a helpful reminder. At least, personally I often find myself starting to compose a funny reply that would be fine for reddit, before remembering that this is Hacker News with different standards. Like many others, I'm active both places, and don't want to dilute the difference.
debacle 14y ago
It isn't a jab. Reddit is a different community, much closer to the 'average' than what people want HN to be.
JonnieCache 14y ago
It seems more and more that "this isn't slashdot" might be the more relevant admonishment.
ralfn 14y ago
Im on both Reddit and HN. Those comments are not jabs, but just reminders, that the intent, purpose and scope of the sites is different. HN is about on topic knowledge sharing, and well formulated opinions. Reddit is more a social interaction, where debate and knowledge sharing are just one of the many types of interactions.

by spodek 14y ago

mmahemoff 14y ago

It's not a jab. It's just different community norms. HN wouldn't be HN if people were allowed to open up 10-level nested comedy threads. If I want to read those - and sometimes I do - I know I can go to Reddit.

masklinn 14y ago
> It's not a jab. It is a jab. > It's just different community norms. There are no "community norms" for reddit, each subreddit has its own norms and things which work in one may get all your comments mod-deleted in an other.
- libria 14y ago
  > It is a jab. By "jab" do you mean derogatory remark? Does that not depend on the poster's perception of Reddit? If one considers them equal but different, then the remark is merely one of contrast. > each subreddit has its own norms Granted... > There are no "community norms" for reddit From what I've observed, there most definitely are. Their forms of humor are often upvoted across subreddits (e.g., inside jokes, meme's, animated gif's in lieu of discourse). This is how I interpret the reddit "jab" comparison: go there for funny, come here for info; neither is better than the other. If you personally feel HN is superior to reddit, than I can see why you'd consider it a jab.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - masklinn 14y ago
    > To be specific, jokes are much more welcome in /r/programming than they are here, which invites Eternal September. That is a much more realistic view, and very true. The remark is still a jab, though. > I think the pro-business mindset helps as well. Depends what you define by "help".
- bgilroy26 14y ago
  To be specific, jokes are much more welcome in /r/programming than they are here, which invites Eternal September. I think the pro-business mindset helps as well. People start complaining when the depth that they remember isn't present in the discussions of the internet community (sometimes the gap is only perception/nostalgia). I am pretty much a poster child for someone who threatens HN culture. While I am deeply interested in the intersection of computers and human enterprise, I came over from Reddit, and I don't have any practical experience to speak of. There are many times here (or in /r/askscience) when someone leaves an opening for a joke and I feel like I just have to make it. I'm sure that originally the impulse was tied to the possibility that a lot of people would like it, but now it's merely a conditioned response. At any rate, my tendency to temporarily believe that my youngish impulsiveness would be a positive thing for the community make me an outsider here, but I don't want to change that. I know that that having a clearly defined purpose helps a community to be strong and it isn't worth making HN (or /r/askscience) more like me if it jeopardizes their existence. What's more, once in a great while, when it really is time to make a joke I've watched them go by unmolested. Edit: I'm sorry about the double post. I was having trouble typing on my phone. Edit2: In response to your comment below, I'd say that people who are pro-business are probably less introverted than I am. Given that assumption, I'd say they'd be less motivated to make those kneejerk comments because they're probably getting enough social validation elsewhere. Granted, those are assumptions layered on assumptions, but at least that was what I meant
jasonlotito 14y ago
If your comment amounts to "This isn't Reddit", then you're part of the problem. There are several ways to show your displeasure without having to resort to posting pointless and wasteful comments. In truth, I find the posts whining about such things worse then the posts they are in reply to.
- mmahemoff 14y ago
  I didn't know there was a problem. I wasn't showing any displeasure.

anotherthrow 14y ago

Well, one of HN's aims is to avoid the eternal september that is very much affecting reddit at the moment. Given that, superfluous jabs at reddit might actually be effective in maintaining a barrier between the communities, or at least strongly remind people of the very specific conversational norms which apply here. Although I started using HN a while ago, I would definitely count myself as someone who uses HN to get interesting stories after going through digg and then reddit (and I'm sure there are a lot of us here) but I'm strongly aware of the particular rules here and do find myself making more of an effort to converse in good faith / be less snarky.

jasonlotito 14y ago
Your comment is beside the point. The issue isn't the quality of the comment the "This isn't reddit" comment is in reply to. Rather, it's the "This isn't Reddit" comment itself. Unless things have changed, you cannot upvote or downvote a post you reply to, or that replies to you (at least, your vote doesn't count). Replying means you are doing nothing more than calling attention to the comment. If the comment is not worthy of being on HN, then it's also reasonable to conclude that most comments it sparks will be of equal or lesser value. Read that part again. Understand that if a comment sparks intelligent discussion, it's generally a good comment. And comments that spark intelligent discussion should be supported. So, either you are part of the problem, or you are wrong, by posting "This isn't Reddit. Please keep on topic." comments. The best solution? Vote accordingly and contribute.
- anotherthrow 14y ago
  I can't see that your argument engages with anything I've said. I've spelt out a plausible mechanism by which some comments would add value to the community (by preventing deterioration of standards of discourse). If you want to say otherwise, you'll have to take issue with that argument. As it stands, you've not done so. Regarding this: > If the comment is not worthy of being on HN, then it's also reasonable to conclude that most comments it sparks will be of equal or lesser value. I don't see any reason to accept it, but even if it did we're talking about a specific subset of responses, and so I've presented an argument for why that subset would add value. This is not inconsistent with the general claim, and so your general claim does not do much in the way of response - it is beside the point. Finally, 'adding value' is more than just 'sparking valuable comments'. Comments can add value without sparking valuable comments by, e.g. re-enforcing valuable community norms.

abrahamsen 14y ago

I don't see it as a jab, but a helpful reminder. At least, personally I often find myself starting to compose a funny reply that would be fine for reddit, before remembering that this is Hacker News with different standards. Like many others, I'm active both places, and don't want to dilute the difference.

debacle 14y ago

It isn't a jab. Reddit is a different community, much closer to the 'average' than what people want HN to be.

JonnieCache 14y ago

It seems more and more that "this isn't slashdot" might be the more relevant admonishment.

ralfn 14y ago

Im on both Reddit and HN. Those comments are not jabs, but just reminders, that the intent, purpose and scope of the sites is different. HN is about on topic knowledge sharing, and well formulated opinions. Reddit is more a social interaction, where debate and knowledge sharing are just one of the many types of interactions.