12 ms·

The Smartphone Kids Are Not All Right

38 points by jdkee 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nonrandomstring 3y ago
This says March 21, 2024 Can that be right? It just feels soooooo OLD, so tired and stuck in a groundhog day of restating the obvious. I was having these conversations in 2014, ten years ago now, and wrote it all up in Digital Vegan by 2019. Same old tobacco/oil industry problem wrapped in layers of denial. I look forward to an EU wide ban on smartphones in all schools, and hopefully a more general prohibition on kids having them at all.
- drekipus 3y ago
  People are in denial though, which is why we have to keep bringing it up. I kinda wish it was plastered on all billboards. "iPads aren't affecting my kids" kids twitching at the table, meltdown when they can't see the screen "kids will be kids amiright? Every body has issues with kids at restaurants /eyeroll"
- mdekkers 3y ago
  > I look forward to an EU wide ban on smartphones in all schools, and hopefully a more general prohibition on kids having them at all. Yeah, absolutely!! Prohibition on all manner of vices has such an excellent track record!
  - salomonk_mur 3y ago
    It does actually. Prohibition on youth almost universally results in extremely lower rates of use over their lifetimes of whatever was prohibited.
    - nonrandomstring 3y ago
      > lower rates of use over their lifetimes of whatever was prohibited. This is a more complicated problem though. Handheld computing devices are a useful and amazing technology. Pragmatically, we don't want to discourage anyone from taking up empowering technologies at an appropriate time in life. The problem stems from a dangerous combination of minds that are too young to understand and process highly addictive usage applications, and a toxic involuted culture driven by predatory commercial appetites. It requires a more delicate programme of digital literacy around why (as a kid) you're not allowed a smartphone, what the dangers are, who the bad guys are, how it can affect you and how to say no. This is slow to happen for the same reasons that sex education is so poorly handled in many countries; it's awkward, full of inconvenient truths and hypocrisy, and many parents and teachers are confused and conflicted themselves. There is also the sinister aspect that a quiet alliance of governments and big-tech who dream of cybernetic governance through effectively mandated smartphone use are willing to throw the mental health of multiple generation under a bus to get it. One can only hope the backlash continues to grow and more people connect the dots and start calling out the deeper causes.
      - chucksta 3y ago
        >in all schools Not a blanket ban for kids
        ambichook 3y ago
        > and hopefully a more general prohibition on kids having them at all sounds like one to me :)
      - nonrandomstring 3y ago
        Oh, Why the silent hate without articulate response? Seems a bit random tbh? Or is HN fully behind banning cellphones for all adults too? I need to get with the programme huh? :)
  - lm28469 3y ago
    It's called education... Do you give weed or crack to your kids? No, is it prohibition? No. I don't get how we arrived to that level of binary thinking where everything has to be fully deregulated otherwise "this is China"
mo_42 3y ago
> The picture, however, looks a lot less clear when you talk with an actual young person. I guess most of these young persons are in Robert Kegan's socializing stage [1]. Parents and teachers etc. are mostly in one of the next stages. I think they need to go back mentally to imagine how it's like to be between 10 and 15. Obviously your kid cannot go simply forward. [1] https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-theory-of-adult-development-d63f4311b553 https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-th...
zubspace 3y ago
Smartphones alone are not to blame for the problem. There are several aspects that, taken together, pose huge challenges for schools, parents and children. Parents have less time for their children. This is understandable when both parents in many families work. The workload on parents rise as our social nets go thinner because its easier than ever to move your home. We are building roads everywhere in our neighborhoods and are converting grassland into apartments. Parents are themselves dependent on digital consumption. Many activities (learning, homework, class chat, music), as well as play (Minecraft, Roblox, Fortnite, ...) are migrating to the digital world. And the teaching profession is no longer as respected as it once was, and they are also overwhelmed by the situation, as they are not familiar with the use of media themselves and expectations are high. A problem like this is difficult to solve, especially as nobody really knows what is right. A ban on digital media up to middle school must come from the government. But for that to happen, the level of suffering has to be high enough. At school, the path must lead back to normal PC/desktop lessons, away from consumer-oriented devices. And we need to give children space. Allow them to gather in our streets and squares to play again. And we as parents need to set an example and not be addicted to smartphones ourselves.
- galdosdi 3y ago
  > Parents have less time for their children. Work may be one reason, but smartphones are another reason. So many adults spend so much time looking at them any time they feel they need a break, and it's so easy to spend longer than expected, eg check a text then end up looking at some other thing for what feels like 5 minutes but really becomes half an hour. Half an hour here, half an hour there, it adds up to less time for everything else including children.
- TheChaplain 3y ago
  > Smartphones alone are not to blame for the problem. Article states issues did not start until few years into 201x. > Parents have less time for their children. Do they? The current work week have been law for 84 years. In the 1970's (almost 60 years ago), it wasn't unusual for women pursuing higher education and a career instead of being home makers. My point being, what is the difference today? What is so important than their children that parents spend time on?

38 points by jdkee 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

This says March 21, 2024 Can that be right? It just feels soooooo OLD, so tired and stuck in a groundhog day of restating the obvious. I was having these conversations in 2014, ten years ago now, and wrote it all up in Digital Vegan by 2019. Same old tobacco/oil industry problem wrapped in layers of denial. I look forward to an EU wide ban on smartphones in all schools, and hopefully a more general prohibition on kids having them at all.

drekipus 3y ago
People are in denial though, which is why we have to keep bringing it up. I kinda wish it was plastered on all billboards. "iPads aren't affecting my kids" kids twitching at the table, meltdown when they can't see the screen "kids will be kids amiright? Every body has issues with kids at restaurants /eyeroll"
mdekkers 3y ago
> I look forward to an EU wide ban on smartphones in all schools, and hopefully a more general prohibition on kids having them at all. Yeah, absolutely!! Prohibition on all manner of vices has such an excellent track record!
- salomonk_mur 3y ago
  It does actually. Prohibition on youth almost universally results in extremely lower rates of use over their lifetimes of whatever was prohibited.
  - nonrandomstring 3y ago
    > lower rates of use over their lifetimes of whatever was prohibited. This is a more complicated problem though. Handheld computing devices are a useful and amazing technology. Pragmatically, we don't want to discourage anyone from taking up empowering technologies at an appropriate time in life. The problem stems from a dangerous combination of minds that are too young to understand and process highly addictive usage applications, and a toxic involuted culture driven by predatory commercial appetites. It requires a more delicate programme of digital literacy around why (as a kid) you're not allowed a smartphone, what the dangers are, who the bad guys are, how it can affect you and how to say no. This is slow to happen for the same reasons that sex education is so poorly handled in many countries; it's awkward, full of inconvenient truths and hypocrisy, and many parents and teachers are confused and conflicted themselves. There is also the sinister aspect that a quiet alliance of governments and big-tech who dream of cybernetic governance through effectively mandated smartphone use are willing to throw the mental health of multiple generation under a bus to get it. One can only hope the backlash continues to grow and more people connect the dots and start calling out the deeper causes.
    - chucksta 3y ago
      >in all schools Not a blanket ban for kids
      - ambichook 3y ago
        > and hopefully a more general prohibition on kids having them at all sounds like one to me :)
    - nonrandomstring 3y ago
      Oh, Why the silent hate without articulate response? Seems a bit random tbh? Or is HN fully behind banning cellphones for all adults too? I need to get with the programme huh? :)
- lm28469 3y ago
  It's called education... Do you give weed or crack to your kids? No, is it prohibition? No. I don't get how we arrived to that level of binary thinking where everything has to be fully deregulated otherwise "this is China"

mo_42 3y ago

> The picture, however, looks a lot less clear when you talk with an actual young person. I guess most of these young persons are in Robert Kegan's socializing stage [1]. Parents and teachers etc. are mostly in one of the next stages. I think they need to go back mentally to imagine how it's like to be between 10 and 15. Obviously your kid cannot go simply forward. [1] https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-theory-of-adult-development-d63f4311b553 https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-th...

zubspace 3y ago

Smartphones alone are not to blame for the problem. There are several aspects that, taken together, pose huge challenges for schools, parents and children. Parents have less time for their children. This is understandable when both parents in many families work. The workload on parents rise as our social nets go thinner because its easier than ever to move your home. We are building roads everywhere in our neighborhoods and are converting grassland into apartments. Parents are themselves dependent on digital consumption. Many activities (learning, homework, class chat, music), as well as play (Minecraft, Roblox, Fortnite, ...) are migrating to the digital world. And the teaching profession is no longer as respected as it once was, and they are also overwhelmed by the situation, as they are not familiar with the use of media themselves and expectations are high. A problem like this is difficult to solve, especially as nobody really knows what is right. A ban on digital media up to middle school must come from the government. But for that to happen, the level of suffering has to be high enough. At school, the path must lead back to normal PC/desktop lessons, away from consumer-oriented devices. And we need to give children space. Allow them to gather in our streets and squares to play again. And we as parents need to set an example and not be addicted to smartphones ourselves.

galdosdi 3y ago
> Parents have less time for their children. Work may be one reason, but smartphones are another reason. So many adults spend so much time looking at them any time they feel they need a break, and it's so easy to spend longer than expected, eg check a text then end up looking at some other thing for what feels like 5 minutes but really becomes half an hour. Half an hour here, half an hour there, it adds up to less time for everything else including children.
TheChaplain 3y ago
> Smartphones alone are not to blame for the problem. Article states issues did not start until few years into 201x. > Parents have less time for their children. Do they? The current work week have been law for 84 years. In the 1970's (almost 60 years ago), it wasn't unusual for women pursuing higher education and a career instead of being home makers. My point being, what is the difference today? What is so important than their children that parents spend time on?