3 ms·

> It seems clear at this point that Covid (the latest variants in the wild, at any rate) does not cause "often debilitating effects" “Patients with coronavirus

> It seems clear at this point that Covid (the latest variants in the wild, at any rate) does not cause "often debilitating effects" “Patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) present increased risk for ischemic cardiovascular complications up to 1 year after infection.” https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-023-00336-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-023-00336-5 “Approximately 1 in 5 individuals exhibited cognitive impairment 12 or more weeks following COVID-19 diagnosis.“ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889159121006516 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088915912...

arp242 3y ago
How does this compare to other viral infections? And neither of those sound debilitating by the way.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  From the second link: > COVID-19 is associated with clinically significant symptoms despite resolution of the acute infection (i.e., post-COVID-19 syndrome). Fatigue and cognitive impairment are amongst the most common and debilitating symptoms of post-COVID-19 syndrome.
  - Izkata 3y ago
    That's comparing to no infection and doesn't answer their question.
    - bugglebeetle 3y ago
      Your comment doesn’t make any sense because how would the absence of an infection ever arrive at a debilitating outcome and thus be a point of comparison? The parent claimed COVID doesn’t cause debilitating outcomes. I provided evidence it does, including specific use of the exact term by medical researchers. When they couldn’t refute that, they made an ambiguous appeal to other infections to distract from being wrong, trying to shift attention from their original, unsupported claim to a new claim (COVID is the same as other viruses), and demanding that I provide evidence contrary to that. But that’s separate from the truth or falsity of the original claim, and thus irrelevant.
      - Izkata 3y ago
        > Your comment doesn’t make any sense because how would the absence of an infection ever arrive at a debilitating outcome and thus be a point of comparison? Base rate in the population in general, which would be a mix of various infections and not. For the no-infection part: those particular ones, for example, could be caused by aging. > When they couldn’t refute that, they made an ambiguous appeal to other infections to distract from being wrong Those were two different people.
        bugglebeetle 3y ago
        This is controlled for by the NOS ranking of the studies in the meta analysis, but since you didn’t actually read it and are arguing from your priors, I guess you wouldn’t have observed that.
        Izkata 3y ago
        Yeah, I responded to what you quoted, which isn't comparing to other viruses. Which is why I said it doesn't answer their question.
        bugglebeetle 3y ago
        And as I said, the comparison to other viruses is irrelevant and does not pertain to the original claim.
        arp242 3y ago
        Of course it's not. "Flu causes exactly the same symptoms" is a radically different scenario than "flu doesn't cause any of these symptoms", which is different again than "Covid causes 20% more symptoms than flu". As far as i know, it's mostly likely that last one(?) But I'm not really sure, which is why I asked. Regardless, it's important to put these figures in context.
        3y ago
- sp332 3y ago
  If it isn't different, that's a stronger arguement that the tradeoffs are worthwhile.

arp242 3y ago

How does this compare to other viral infections? And neither of those sound debilitating by the way.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
From the second link: > COVID-19 is associated with clinically significant symptoms despite resolution of the acute infection (i.e., post-COVID-19 syndrome). Fatigue and cognitive impairment are amongst the most common and debilitating symptoms of post-COVID-19 syndrome.
- Izkata 3y ago
  That's comparing to no infection and doesn't answer their question.
  - bugglebeetle 3y ago
    Your comment doesn’t make any sense because how would the absence of an infection ever arrive at a debilitating outcome and thus be a point of comparison? The parent claimed COVID doesn’t cause debilitating outcomes. I provided evidence it does, including specific use of the exact term by medical researchers. When they couldn’t refute that, they made an ambiguous appeal to other infections to distract from being wrong, trying to shift attention from their original, unsupported claim to a new claim (COVID is the same as other viruses), and demanding that I provide evidence contrary to that. But that’s separate from the truth or falsity of the original claim, and thus irrelevant.
    - Izkata 3y ago
      > Your comment doesn’t make any sense because how would the absence of an infection ever arrive at a debilitating outcome and thus be a point of comparison? Base rate in the population in general, which would be a mix of various infections and not. For the no-infection part: those particular ones, for example, could be caused by aging. > When they couldn’t refute that, they made an ambiguous appeal to other infections to distract from being wrong Those were two different people.
      - bugglebeetle 3y ago
        This is controlled for by the NOS ranking of the studies in the meta analysis, but since you didn’t actually read it and are arguing from your priors, I guess you wouldn’t have observed that.
        Izkata 3y ago
        Yeah, I responded to what you quoted, which isn't comparing to other viruses. Which is why I said it doesn't answer their question.
        bugglebeetle 3y ago
        And as I said, the comparison to other viruses is irrelevant and does not pertain to the original claim.
        arp242 3y ago
        Of course it's not. "Flu causes exactly the same symptoms" is a radically different scenario than "flu doesn't cause any of these symptoms", which is different again than "Covid causes 20% more symptoms than flu". As far as i know, it's mostly likely that last one(?) But I'm not really sure, which is why I asked. Regardless, it's important to put these figures in context.
        3y ago
sp332 3y ago
If it isn't different, that's a stronger arguement that the tradeoffs are worthwhile.