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Here we go again anthropomorphizing creatures that live 1-2 years by misrepresenting data for clicks.

kaycebasques 3y ago
I know that you're correct to generalize most octopuses living for that timeframe but I was very interested to learn of this one brooding for four years: https://www.mbari.org/news/deep-sea-octopus-broods-eggs-for-over-four-years-longer-than-any-known-animal/ https://www.mbari.org/news/deep-sea-octopus-broods-eggs-for-...
BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
Octopuses are crazy smart and theres tons of evidence for it; not sure where this comment comes from even if the article is mediocre.
- lpfnrobin 3y ago
  What happens after the bottle?
- slothtrop 3y ago
  There isn't. There's periodic pop-sci headlines shared on HN that suggest they are, but no evidence that they are "crazy smart". You might as well say the honeybee is "crazy smart", it makes as much sense.
RoyalHenOil 3y ago
What aspect of it is anthropomorphizing? Do you mean the phrase "bouncing the ball" because it is not literally bouncing a ball? Nothing else in the article jumped out at me as ascribing human-specific behavior to octopuses. Also, I don't follow what lifespan has to do with anything. Rats live about 2 years, yet they are dramatically more human-like (exhibiting higher intelligence, more play behavior, etc.) than most other animals, including animals with very long lifespans, such as turtles. Not to mention that the article was specifically regarding an octopus species that lives longer than that; I take it you did not actually read it?
- anileated 3y ago
  It’s interesting how the same phrase can mean very different things to us depending on whether there is a human or not. It’s completely automatic and is not obvious. A human bounces the ball: the connotation of play. Something or an animal bounces the ball: mechanical movement. Somehow, it feels like a different action. In a more drastic version: a human is learning = self-fulfillment, becoming a better person and better member of society, advancement and progress, basic right; machine learning = consuming a dataset to create a black box that can “predict” the next token if you give it one. If you see “bounces the ball” accompanied by “play” when talking about an animal, it can feel like the intent is to use one version of bouncing in place of another to anthropomorphize an animal (although it’s not clear what would be the alternative for the same mechanical action). I think it can be true that animals play, but someone who doesn’t think so can see it as sensationalizing and misleading public into being taken literally. In a similar vein, a statement “LLM learns” could seem normal to some, but rub someone else wrong if they think attributing humanness to LLMs is sensationalizing and misappropriating industry term into being taken literally (probably to benefit the big tech).
- slothtrop 3y ago
  > Not to mention that the article was specifically regarding an octopus species that lives longer than that Nope, it's about the common octopus. That is what Octopus vulgaris is. Yes, I did read it. > Rats live about 2 years, yet they are dramatically more human-like (exhibiting higher intelligence, more play behavior, etc.) than most other animals Rats are not popularly deemed "highly intelligent" animals, unlike octopi. If we thought them to be on their level we wouldn't be sharing these articles all the time.
ebiester 3y ago
There is a difference between anthropomorphizing it and demonstrating that humans are a subset of Animalia and some characteristics of Animalia are not human-specific, even if they're very different from humans.

I know that you're correct to generalize most octopuses living for that timeframe but I was very interested to learn of this one brooding for four years: https://www.mbari.org/news/deep-sea-octopus-broods-eggs-for-over-four-years-longer-than-any-known-animal/ https://www.mbari.org/news/deep-sea-octopus-broods-eggs-for-...

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago

Octopuses are crazy smart and theres tons of evidence for it; not sure where this comment comes from even if the article is mediocre.

lpfnrobin 3y ago
What happens after the bottle?
slothtrop 3y ago
There isn't. There's periodic pop-sci headlines shared on HN that suggest they are, but no evidence that they are "crazy smart". You might as well say the honeybee is "crazy smart", it makes as much sense.

RoyalHenOil 3y ago

What aspect of it is anthropomorphizing? Do you mean the phrase "bouncing the ball" because it is not literally bouncing a ball? Nothing else in the article jumped out at me as ascribing human-specific behavior to octopuses. Also, I don't follow what lifespan has to do with anything. Rats live about 2 years, yet they are dramatically more human-like (exhibiting higher intelligence, more play behavior, etc.) than most other animals, including animals with very long lifespans, such as turtles. Not to mention that the article was specifically regarding an octopus species that lives longer than that; I take it you did not actually read it?

anileated 3y ago
It’s interesting how the same phrase can mean very different things to us depending on whether there is a human or not. It’s completely automatic and is not obvious. A human bounces the ball: the connotation of play. Something or an animal bounces the ball: mechanical movement. Somehow, it feels like a different action. In a more drastic version: a human is learning = self-fulfillment, becoming a better person and better member of society, advancement and progress, basic right; machine learning = consuming a dataset to create a black box that can “predict” the next token if you give it one. If you see “bounces the ball” accompanied by “play” when talking about an animal, it can feel like the intent is to use one version of bouncing in place of another to anthropomorphize an animal (although it’s not clear what would be the alternative for the same mechanical action). I think it can be true that animals play, but someone who doesn’t think so can see it as sensationalizing and misleading public into being taken literally. In a similar vein, a statement “LLM learns” could seem normal to some, but rub someone else wrong if they think attributing humanness to LLMs is sensationalizing and misappropriating industry term into being taken literally (probably to benefit the big tech).
slothtrop 3y ago
> Not to mention that the article was specifically regarding an octopus species that lives longer than that Nope, it's about the common octopus. That is what Octopus vulgaris is. Yes, I did read it. > Rats live about 2 years, yet they are dramatically more human-like (exhibiting higher intelligence, more play behavior, etc.) than most other animals Rats are not popularly deemed "highly intelligent" animals, unlike octopi. If we thought them to be on their level we wouldn't be sharing these articles all the time.

ebiester 3y ago

There is a difference between anthropomorphizing it and demonstrating that humans are a subset of Animalia and some characteristics of Animalia are not human-specific, even if they're very different from humans.